Portal talk:Fine Arts

Inclusion of other Textile Arts?
Surface Design, maybe... or perhaps these should go in Visual Arts as it is sometimes a little more scholarly. There is more to it than Yarn Works and Weaving. Dyeing, printing, and other techniques are part of the Textile Arts. They could also go under sculpture sometimes, but there should be a place for them in Visual Arts along with Painting, Drawing, Ceramics, as well as Printmaking/Book Arts and such. Maybe you should have Textile/Fabric Arts as a section rather than just naming two of them.

Division of Art Crafts?
I wonder about the name Division of Art Crafts. I would like to suggest a rename: perhaps 'Division of Arts and Crafts' (but that's a bit too Morris-esque maybe) or 'Division of Craft Arts'. Does anyone else think the current name sounds almost ungrammatical? (Sam 01:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC))


 * I agree with Sam that "Craft Arts" sounds much better than "Art Crafts."


 * I've changed it, and will come and add some content there soon. —Sam 01:23, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Portal?
A portal cannot be a subdivision of a school. Schools are subdivisions of the portals. So, please decide, is this a school within Portal:Humanities, or a portal of its own, with its own schools? --George D. Bozovic talk 12:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There can be Wikiversity portal pages for many purposes. A subject area such as "Fine Arts" can certainly have its own portal. If "Fine Arts" is a division of the School of Art and Design then the page named Topic:Fine Arts should be changed from a redirect page to a page that starts with . Wikiversity portals should quickly connect browsers of Wikiversity to learning resources. "Topic:" pages are special Wikiversity projects for the development of Wikiversity content. --JWSchmidt 16:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * This is very confusing. As I understood naming conventions policy, there are only several portals (Portal: namespace), and they contain schools (School: namespace), which then contain topics (Topic: namespace) and lessons (Main namespace). I don't know... I am obviously not smart enough. This is way too complicated. :) Are you saying that there should exist Topic:Fine Arts within School of Arts and Design, and not Portal:Fine Arts? Or that Portals are generally allowed for more purposes than I thought, and that this is fine? --George D. Bozovic talk 17:14, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

"This is way too complicated" <-- The system is not complex. It is a little different from the system at Wikipedia."As I understood naming conventions policy" <-- I think two key things to pay attention to are The flexibility of Portal s and Namespaces. "there are only several portals" <-- This is true, but it does not mean that the existing major portals are meant to be the only Wikiversity portals. Any Wikiversity category of learning resources can have an associated portal. "there are only several portals ... they contain schools" <-- The major Wikiversity portals can point to the Wikiversity schools for a broad subject area. Eventually, portals should quickly quide Wikiversity browsers to learning resources in the main namespace. Right now, Wikiversity has almost no real content, so the major portals mainly point to pages in the "School:" and "Topic:" namespaces. These school and topic pages are "meta pages", pages for organizing the activity of Wikiversity editors who are trying to create learning resources. For people who are familiar with Wikipedia, I suggest that you think of "School:" and "Topic:" pages as Wikiversity content development projects like the Wikipedia "WikiProjects".--JWSchmidt 01:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

PORTALS then SCHOOLS then DEPARTMENTS then LESSONS

 * Definition of Portal
 * I believe that I agree with George D. Bozovic. A portal is the main access point.


 * Currently, Fine Arts is defined as a PORTAL (Portal:Fine Arts) on the Wikiversity main page. That's OK by me!!!


 * Organization for Institute of Film and Television


 * Then, I think under Portals should be Schools (Namely, SCHOOL: Institute of Film and Television). And under Schools should be Departments or (Topics then Departments).  And under Departments should be Lessons which are grouped in Courses (or Streams).


 * Therefore, I believe that the use of "TOPIC" is incorrect on this page. Example:  The Institute of Film and Television (Film and Television) should NOT be a TOPIC (as it currently is) but rather, it should be a SCHOOL.  (Topic or Departments should be used for the items under Film and Television.)

I am trying to organize the Film and Television pages so it would be nice to decide this soon. Robert Elliott 03:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC) .
 * We are trying to use the term "school" in the way that the Wikiversity community started using it on this Wikibooks page. Nobody is saying that every area of study that should be called a school was on the list of schools at Wikibooks or is already on the current list. However, we are trying to avoid having schools inside of other schools. If "Fine Arts" is going to be a Division of The School of Art and Design then we should not create additional schools within the Division of Fine Arts (see Naming conventions). Film and Television can be sub-division of Division of Fine Arts. --JWSchmidt 04:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * As I understood (I think I did :)), portals do contain schools, but also some learning topics and projects can have their portals, which then do not contain schools, but are just a helpful place for better organization. The difference is also in category - Category:Portal vs. Category:Wikiversity portals, the latter being a sort of a "faculty" or "institute", etc. which connects several related schools, and the first one being just a portal as it is on Wikipedia. So, in this case these subdivisions schould be in Topic: namespace, not School: namespace, since they all are part of the School of Art and Design, which is a part of the Faculty for Humanities. The Fine Arts portal is just a common portal, like in Wikipedia. :) Am I right? --George D. Bozovic talk 15:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, there are different "types" of portals. Wikiversity has a short list of major portals. The idea is to have a small group of major portals that can be used in a small space on the main page and under the heading "Major portals" on the browse page. There can be many other portals that are not "major portals". Every Wikiversity category can have a portal that serves to provide user-friendly access to the contents of that category. I'm not sure it is useful to say that "portals contain schools". Some portals correspond to Wikiversity categories that contain schools. For example, the Life Sciences Portal is for helping Wikiversity browsers find content in the Life Sciences category (including its sub-categories). --JWSchmidt 16:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Tree Structure -- How Did I Get Here? And Where am I going?
Please confirm the tree structure for Wikiversity from Main Page to my Lessons.


 * LEVEL 1: The main page for Main Page
 * LEVEL 2: Faculty for Humanities which is coded as a PORTAL and shows up on the list of Major Portals.  I could have skipped this by going directly to Fine Arts which is also a PORTAL on this Main Page and listed on the same line.
 * LEVEL 3: The School of Art and Design which is coded as a SCHOOL and listed at Wikiversity Schools which is the current list of major Wikiversity schools. Note: Art and Design is also a PORTAL listed in the Category:Portal - category containing other Wikiversity portals.
 * LEVEL 4: The Division of Fine Arts which is actually coded as a PORTAL, not a DIVISION. By looking at the code, you will see that Fine Arts is coded as "Portal:Fine Arts|The Division of Fine Arts". Fine Art Portal does not appear in Major Portals but appears in Category:Portal.  (Note:  I cannot find a list of DIVISIONS.  Divisions does not work.)  Fine Arts is listed as a topic at http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=104

To get to my Filmmaking lessons from this page, I go to:


 * LEVEL 5: The Division of Institute of Film and Television which is coded as a TOPIC.  TOPICS can only be listed by going to http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=104 rather than Topics or Wikiversity Topics which do not work.
 * LEVEL 6: The Subdivision of Narrative film production which is coded currently as a TOPIC.
 * LEVEL 7: My first lesson which is  WikiU Film School - Lesson #001: Formatting the Script which I coded as a LESSON which is part of a course on which is called  WikiU Film School: Course #1 - Learning the Basics of Filmmaking and is coded as a PROJECT.   (Note:  I cannot find a list of LESSONS.  Lessons does not work.))

If this is not correct, please tell me how to correct it. Robert Elliott 27 September 2006 (UTC)

"Level 4" (above). Pages in the "School:" and "Topic:" namespaces function as Wikivewrsity content creation/improvement projects, similar to the Wikipedia "Wikiprojects". The page named Topic:Fine Arts should be changed from a redirect page to a page that is started with .LEVEL 5, the Institute of Film and Television is a sub-division.LEVEL 6. Narrative film production is a department.As for the "pages that do not work", you are free to create new pages. Some people find it useful to create lists. We could have a list of every lesson at Wikiversity. One way to do this would be to make Category:Lessons and put every lesson in that category. --JWSchmidt 21:29, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

The change of Portal:Fine Arts to Topic:Fine Arts is beyond my current capability. Robert Elliott 03:15, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I would not change the portal page. Portals are to help quickly guide Wikiversity readers to educational content. "School:" and "Topic:" pages are for Wikiversity editors who are creating new Wikiversity content. There can be both Portal:Fine Arts to Topic:Fine Arts. --JWSchmidt 03:34, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Self Cataloging Items
 * Sorry for not being clear. When I say that Lessons does not work, I am refering to features in other Wikis which will AUTOMATICALLY tabulate this for you and ALWAYS keep it current. It is a feature of the software.  Best of all, this automatic feature works for any new items you want to keep track of.  It is a wonderful software feature and would be very useful here. Robert Elliott 22:05, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

If I understand this correctly, my first lesson is now at:


 * Current Location
 * LEVEL 1: Wikiversity - English
 * LEVEL 2: Faculty for Humanities
 * LEVEL 3: The School of Art and Design
 * LEVEL 4: The Division of Fine Arts
 * LEVEL 5: The Subdivision of Film and Television
 * LEVEL 6: The Department of Narrative Film Production
 * LEVEL 7: WikiU Film School:  Course #1 - Learning the Basics of Filmmaking
 * LEVEL 8: This lesson which is Lesson #001:  Formatting the Script

Let me know if I have made any errors! Robert Elliott 03:15, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The page Basic Filmmaking should not be in the "Wikiversity" namespace. You should move it to the main namespace; Basic Filmmaking should work. --JWSchmidt 03:43, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Ops!
 * Sorry, my mistake. I will move it today. (Note: I am still not familiar with the procedure for deleting a page which was established on the wrong place.)


 * Namespaces
 * However, this points out a problem. Putting pages in the MAIN namespace will eventually cause problems.  By using the main namespace, all structure breaks down and eventually no one can find anything.


 * I believe strongly that EVERYTHING should be in a hierarchy. That is, all pages should be established as   [[Namespace:Basic_Filmmaking ]] and never just   [[Basic_Filmmaking ]]  When pages have an actual namespace (not just main) then people can use the structure of Wikiversity to search for a subject (once this features is fully working.)


 * Unless anyone has an objection, I will use the page address of [[Courses:Basic_Filmmaking ]].  I prefer to use COURSES rather than PROJECTS but apparently PROJECTS is the accepted namespace in Wikiversity for courses.  (I feel that clear namespaces should be used.  I do not think that PROJECTS clearly means COURSES.) Robert Elliott 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Correction
 * I see that someone has already moved the offending page to   [[Topic:Basic_Filmmaking ]] and established a REDIRECT to this new location.  Therefore, I will not move the page to  [[Courses:Basic_Filmmaking ]] today.  However, I would prefer to do this someday since I do believe that COURSE is much clearer than TOPIC for the namespace of Courses. Robert Elliott 28 September 2006.


 * More about Namespaces (Suggestion for PAGES OF LESSONS)
 * Each LESSON has many pages. Currently, I do not use a namespace for each of these pages.  Any suggestions for a namespace for each of the pages of a lesson? (PAGES is obviously not a clear namespace.) Robert Elliott 28 September 2006.


 * Move complete!
 * I have removed all references to the offending (now old and useless) page of [[Wikiversity:Basic Filmmaking ]].  The page  Basic Filmmaking  can be removed.  (When it is removed, the reference in this paragraph should turn  RED if everything is working perfectly.) Robert Elliott 20:46, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

No Course or Lesson Namespaces
As I believe, there is no Course: or Courses: namespace. And I have also noticed Lesson:Formatting_the_script - there is no Lesson: namespace either. What I'm not clear with is what to do with such lessons whose titles are the same, but those are different lessons from the different schools. There are some topics which are shared by several sciences, and then a confusion may appear. --George D. Bozovic talk 16:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

---


 * Dear George,
 * In a perfect world, each pages name would not just be the immediate namespace but all the namespaces to that point (the page's hierarchy.) Therefore each page would be unique and easily identifiable even if the current page has the identical name as another page.


 * The problem is the designers of Wikiversity are taking short cuts and this is NOT good. This sloppy design will come back to haunt us... exactly in the cases that you point out.  Robert Elliott 22:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

To which division belongs Calligraphy?
Visual arts?--Hillgentleman 05:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)