Talk:European History/Class Structure

Structuring Proposal*
I'm going to propose that we impliment the following general levels of study:


 * Primary/Elementary
 * Secondary/High School


 * Beginning University/College
 * Advanced University
 * Superior University | Thesis-level | Honors Project


 * Graduate

The idea is that there are broad brackets for what pre-college material we come up with (which can be further subdivided later if we got more materials in these areas), three divisions among undergraduate university courses, along the lines of basic/survey courses, specialized/intermediate & advanced courses, and senior-level coursework and research which requires a much more advanced grounding in history. Finally, there is graduate-level stuff. The third university tier could perhaps simply be amalgamated in with graduate level. And there will probably be some courses which span categories, and we can deal with those as they arise. Anyway, what do you think? The Jade Knight 09:04, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Make it simpler, ie.
 * Primary/Elementary
 * Secondary/High School
 * Beginning University/College (AA Level)
 * Advanced University (BA Level)
 * Superior University | Thesis-level | Honors Project (MA Level)
 * Graduate (PHD Level)
 * The G 16:44, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That's essentially how I've broken it down. However, the references to degrees may be helpful  (I'd say "advanced university" should be labeled "advanced BA level", though).  Also, an MA is generally seen as a graduate degree, but that's mostly just a quibble.  The Jade Knight 22:48, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * My question is whether or not people know what an AA degree is. Because many people go to a four year institution, they don't normally receive a degree after their two year mark as student attending a Community College (2 year school).The G 16:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * True. Well, the "equivalent degree level" parts that you've added could be listed next to the other equivalents, for the maximum amount of clarity.  What do you think?  And do you think these divisions are appropriate?  The Jade Knight 02:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I like it, its better than what is started as. The question is who decides what a class is or should the be a numbering or letter system that defines what it is. Ie...
 * Russian Revolution (AU) (AU representing Advance University)The G 16:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a good question. Well, now that we have our general divisions figured out, we should come up with names.  I think, however, that all projects should avoid having any numbers or letter abbreviation in the project names:  Russian Revolution, even if it were to have some sort of course number, should remain titled Russian Revolution, etc.  But what do you think the best way to institute these gradations would be?  Letter abbreviations (like your example of "AU")?  Numbered levels?  (like "Level 2" for secondary materials?)  Or simply descriptive titles?  ("This is an Advanced University-level course.")  Or perhaps something else entirely?  I think our goal is to be as transparent and easy to understand as possible.  The Jade Knight 21:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Here's another consideration: some projects may be suitable for different levels (ie, introductory and advanced university) at the same time—consider, for example, the Bloom Clock Project, which even children could contribute to, and more advanced students could turn into articles or even perhaps eventually base a thesis on. I think whatever system we devise should be flexible enough to consider such possibilities.  The Jade Knight 21:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Simple answer, same portal different paths. In any class there needs to be a direction for the 'class'; therefore, you just create separate paths from each of the school levels and then have them point to the same source, ie:


 * Russian Revolution AA, Perfect for those want to learn more in general about the Russian Revolution.
 * Russian Revolution MA, An in depth look in the Russian Revolution but with an emphasis on the People of the Revolution.
 * Russian Revolution MA, An in depth look in the Russian Revolution but with an emphasis on the Economics of the Revolution.
 * What do you think?The G 17:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you maybe provide more of an example of how this would work? I'm not sure I entirely understand.  The Jade Knight 11:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * For example, my friend wants to be a physics major; therefore this requires him to take Physics 1, 2, and 3 before he can start taking some upper level classes. After he takes these classes, he'll be taking several more classes at the 3-400 levels. Even though he is taking all physics classes, they are all specific classes. As he moves on into more MA and PhD classes, he'll be more focused in one specific area of the broader scope. Classes on the Wikiversity can be like these classes if people decide to create them. However, there should be a general class that look at the whole picture. If someone wants to go into more detail, they can create a separate page and refer back to a main source for the class but direct the class into the more focused part. Does this help?The G 21:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think so. So you're saying that every project should start at a general level, and then narrow down as it gets "filled in", as it were, and where appropriate sub-projects/pages could be created from there?  The Jade Knight 05:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

General Categories
Perhaps we could generalize it further:
 * Pre-College (levels 1 & 2)
 * College/University (levels 3 & 4)
 * Graduate (levels 5 & 6)

While there would be some overlap in some of these, this may be a convenient way to have even more broad categories that could be used to designate projects which span a broad level of interest (which have not been significantly narrowed). The Jade Knight 05:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed, I like it... simple... yet complete. Maybe this should be the general grand view structure. Meaning, those who create and actively edit classes know of the more specific points of the policy, but for the general lay user (those who take classes only or do minor editing) would be able to understand this policy. Of course all users should be aware of the specifics of the policy but maybe some just want the general picture.The G 02:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Now the question is how would we incorporate these divisions? It would be easy enough to have a page that categorizes projects offered by the School listed under such divisions, but should anything else be done?  The Jade Knight 20:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikiversity Levels?
I just found this: Help:Resources_by_educational_level. They seem to use 5+1 categories, being preschool (0), primary (1), secondary (2), teriary (3, 4, and 5), research (5 and 6), and non-formal (which really could fall under any of these). Essentially, they turn our system of 6 into 5, lumping all tertiary education together except for "research", which is its own category, and adding an extra one for preschool. What do you think? The Jade Knight 07:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The categories mentioned by Jade Knight are fine. However, there must be sub-categories just for the benefit of those who wish to learn/prepare material at Wikiversity . That is, in tertiary level, one can create/learn the same course material for at least four different levels: introductory, intermediate, advanced, research.
 * In the introductory level the reading material as well as the level of questions asked may be kept to a basic level as the idea may be to introduce s’body to the topic. As the level of previous knowledge increases, the amount and depth of reading etc must be increasing. The system I propose is the following:
 * Basic (undergraduate)
 * Intermediate (undergraduate)
 * Advanced (undergraduate)
 * Research I (graduate, master’s level)
 * Research II (graduate, doctoral level)
 * Dilos1 09:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * In my experience, advanced undergraduate work is quite similar to MA work. The Jade Knight (d'viser) 09:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, that might be correct to some point. An advanced undergraduate course will have a lot of specialized reading and writing, an MA course will have more specialized reading and definitely writing of a higher quality compared to the undergraduate course. On the other hand, my experience has shown that I can have in the same class both advanced undergraduates and MA students, ask from both the same quantity of work but expect higher quality of writing from the MA students and myself apply stricter grading. Well, for the beginning one can use the three undegrad. categories plus one general research. Dilos1 09:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)