Talk:Python Concepts

Merger
I have merged/redirected this page to its related topic. All course related material should be further developed under the topic of python itself.

Download Python
2. finding a way to download Python so beginners can use codes posted here.
 * It may be helpful to point people towards the pre-compiled binaries on the PSF website. --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 02:10, 19 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I am all for links to downloads. I hope this site isn't trying to install stuff.  If so, you need to warn the readers.--guyvan52 (discuss • contribs) 17:24, 21 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Also, on MATLAB I am experimenting with a resource that "shadows" the site's tutorial by providing a short summary of each tutorial session. Students who need a refresher can skim through this page to see what each tutorial is about.  I have no evidence as to whether this is useful to students, yet.  --guyvan52 (discuss • contribs) 17:28, 21 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I'll definitely warn about the downloads. MATLAB... I've never used that software before though I've heard people mention it. GNU has software that is similiar to MATLAB, right? --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 18:53, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

The GNU clone to MatLab is GNU Octave, which lacks a GUI and has other differences, especially when dealing with symbolic manipulation. I described the two systems at MATLAB if you are interested. I am not an expert at MATLAB (or any computer language for that matter), but use it because it is what the engineers use at our small branch campus of Wright State University.--guyvan52 (discuss • contribs) 20:00, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll check it out. --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 13:48, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Developing Lessons.
On a side note, I think that some of the lesson should be split up into new lessons, like creating a lesson entirely for strings and lists for example. I think we should also beef up the content in the resource mainly adding more complex things about parsers and GUI's, you know, more real life stuff used in the everyday world. --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 17:08, 24 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Don't hesitate to change it. You seem to be by far the most active python editor at the moment.  --guyvan52 (discuss • contribs) 20:09, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Python Projects
A little something I thought up, what about a separate resource for setting up Python related projects. This could allow Wikiverstians to come together and create useful tools and programs, while learning Python and team-building skills at the same. It isn't something I would necessary implement right now, but it maybe a good idea in the future. --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 22:25, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

PythonLearn
Have those of you interested in Python seen http://www.pythonlearn.com/ ? That resource is all CC-BY-SA content available to everyone. It includes textbook, videos, etc. Something worth investigating. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 01:51, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I believe the site was used as a reference (unless I'm wrong) and if I threw my opinion in, one of the top sites for learning Python is the Python Tutorial, although it isn't very in depth in some areas and it can leave you say "what?" sometimes. --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 16:18, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Deletion of proposal to place Python on campus computers
I removed the proposal to place Python on campus computers and will remove the link. In the unlikely event you want to keep it, go to this page --Guy vandegrift (discuss • contribs) 12:53, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You might want to keep the page, as per this discussion. --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 18:12, 14 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Old post never mind.... --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 18:20, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Having trouble with file management and DOS commands
As a novice, I see a need for more instructions on running codes. Wikibooks has something at Python_Programming/Creating_Python_Programs, but it is barely enough. Also, if a collection of simple sample codes came with the Python download, I cannot find it.--Guy vandegrift (discuss • contribs) 01:57, 14 April 2015 (UTC)


 * What part of the code do you need help with, files or/and the prompt? As for your second question, I'm not aware of any sample code that comes with Python. I know there's turtle demos under the Help menu in IDLE, but it shows you little graphics demos and gives pretty advanced source code. Now that it's come to my attention, it might be useful to keep a collection of Python examples.  --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 18:04, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Add overwiew of the python terminal, python programs, and the python cli.
A current issue with this course is that it does not explain to begginers what a python terminal is, nor does it explain how to run a python file or how to run modules using python. This is something very important for the average begginer, as an understanding of *how* code is run influence how likely they are to grasp the code itself.

For example, in the tutorials the python command line is used, for example:

it is, however, never explained to new programmers how to access this, or what the difference is between that and full python files. -- RuboGubo (discuss • contribs) 15:06, 17 April 2022 (UTC)


 * @RuboGubo: Be bold! -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 14:46, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Priorities for improving this course - June 2022
This course needs some TLC, but there are a lot of things that need doing and it's best we prioritize certain improvements over others. Here is a basic plan for getting Python Concepts up to par (and eventually beyond), listed in order so that 1 should be done first and we can work down the list. This is of course flexible but at least imo the order follows a logical path forward for this course. I'll make some edits myself but help will be appreciated.


 * 1) Revamp articles for installation and basic usage. - There's no point of the rest of the course if they can't run the code they're learning. We'll improve instructions for using the terminal, running python files, and so on. Troubleshooting sections would also be helpful.
 * 2) Bring existing pages to "full completion" status. - Before we can add any new articles, we should get the existing ones more-or-less done unless we decide one or two should be cut entirely.
 * 3) Reorganize the categories into clearly-defined learning modules. - The pages here seem to be somewhat organized by topic rather than in syllabus order. We shouldn't abandon that, but it's probably a good thing to build their knowledge upward in a more rounded fashion instead of "learn every single data type then every single statement".
 * 4) Fill in the gaps. - There are a few extra articles we could insert in the middle of the course, like a lesson on effectively using built-in and third-party modules, making multi-file python projects (__init__ and __main__ and whatnot), and perhaps one on pytest. Sky's the limit!
 * 5) Materials for learning by experience. - Programming can hardly be taught in any textbook or lecture. Sure, you can learn what each common function does, but the problem-solving needed can only be learned by doing projects yourself. So we should make some projects for this course complete with tips, hints, and sample solutions. There could be ones all about solving a narrow-scoped programming problem from "starting" code (perhaps in some cases even fixing broken code so it works), and other ones where they are only given a goal and freedom to accomplish it as they see fit. There should be a lot of these exercises. Ideally at least one per lecture and a few cumulative ones at the end of each module. This is by far the longest step which is why it is last!

In general, steps 4 and 5 can be a tandem effort but steps 1, 2 and 3 need to be done in that order. Let me know what you think of this plan. Hjk321 (discuss • contribs) 16:45, 24 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @Hjk321: See Programming Challenges for ideas. There are also a variety of programming tasks included in Programming Fundamentals and Python Programming. Programming Fundamentals is a live real-world course with 50+ summer students and 100+ fall and spring students. I don't use Python Programming as much anymore. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 02:25, 25 June 2022 (UTC)