User talk:Arided/ImplementingParagogy

It would be good to mark up the links with brackets (in LaTeX they were footnotes, but they look funny in mid-line here). --Arided 01:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Done --Arided 04:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I've used an informal first-person storytelling style here, which I think will help make the lesson accessible for readers. However, it comes with the drawback that it may be less accessible to other contributors! I'm open to suggestions about this... --Arided 04:55, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Dr. Marjorie King reminds me that it would be good to have an evaluation strategy for this process (implied: both for the lesson and for peer-to-peer learning structures more generally). --Arided 21:38, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I like the new "thing"/"sub-thing" structure, but I think the flow might work better if the "things" were tasks and the "sub-things" were principles. --Arided 18:30, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to integrate the stuff about how "the idea here is to stay aware of how the learning context facilitates learner participation in shaping the learning context!" from http://p2pu.org/general/node/15138/document/24874 into the conclusion. Arided 03:04, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

small note
while i am very supportive of this resource being in the public domain, wikiversity is not the place for it as i just discovered in the colloquium. it just complicates things un-necessarily. kind of annoyed 'cause I wanted to edit public domain resources here too, but c'est la vie. better overall to not complicate things probably. you are free to upload the original PDF and CC0 license it. --Charles Jeffrey Danoff 06:35, 23 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I think I understand this to some degree; if Wikiversity isn't planning to include a license selector any time soon, we can no doubt find another "home" for live CC0 documents... anyway, as long as we own the copyrights to these docs we can license them however we want (including no rights reserved). The minute other people come and start making significant edits, that won't apply (unless they agree to the CC0 terms explicitly).  Wikisource would work as well, but only after the work has been published somewhere with peer review.  Not huge deal, but certainly a tedious enough distraction... Arided 03:02, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

piratepad discussions of this lesson plan on 28 Feb & 02 Mar 2011

 * Contributors Joe, Charlie, Dr. King and Marisa (also including some earlier IRC chat btw Joe & Charlie) --Charles Jeffrey Danoff 19:19, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * link: http://piratepad.net/collab-lesson-planning
 * direct link to pasted edition (might be different now): http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/collab-lesson-planning/9FKmjRtKPV

pad html re-pasted
For this exercise:envisioning a peer learning experience that worksmaking it easier for people to participatebridge between traditional classroom folks (teachers and students) into the P2P modelbut when the course is based on volunteer participation it is hard to keep motivation high -- life has a tendency to derail us.how can we make it as easy as possible for volunteers to participate without interrupting their livesif you can get something out of it, that is good.<li>diversity increases the difficulty for organizers</li ><li>right now too heterogenous <br /> <br /></li></ul >Peer-to-peer or "peer-based" learning is what happens when a group of people with different backgrounds and aims agree to come together for a  learning activity, most likely without a teacher and without an  explicit learning plan (at the outset). There are both benefits and hazards to this kind of learning. This lesson is aimed at persons who are interested in helping facilitate such learning experiences, to get  the greatest benefit and diminish the overall hazard. You might be an official "facilitator", or an administrator, or a peer learner aiming to  help your learning group achieve more. The lesson reflects back on half a year of experience at P2PU and continues to grow and develop -- in working through this lesson, you will have the opportunity to  contribute to the theory of "paragogy".<br /><br /><ul><li>Purpose of this lesson <ul><li>Learn techniques for designing and running a peer-to-peer course.</li ><li>Learn techniques for fostering organizational learning in your institution or other shared context.</li ><li>Develop plans for balancing the above with your own learning needs and ambitions. <br /></li></ul ></li ><li>Audience Anyone who is already involved in peer-to-peer education or who aims to become involved with it. <br /></li ><li>Time to complete Initial exercise: about 1 hour - Practice in the field: at least 1 quarter. <br /></li ><li>Requirements Can be studied alone, but should be practiced with a group. <br /></li></ul >Dr. King's Comments on the introduction to "Implementing Paragogy":<br /><ul><li>It just says two people who doesn't make any difference who they are. They can learn together. How does that become a peer?</li ><li>says its ok as a defeiniton, but not as a theory<ul><li>how is he going to evaluate?</li ><li> <ul><li>sugggestion: people learning japanese ... end of two months of people learning japanese, they can "evaluate" themselves by seeing if they can write 500 characters down on a blank piece of paper<ul><li>she said that is a logical evaluation and its fine <br /></li></ul ></li></ul ></li></ul ></li></ul >these are same questions from before, I think we keep going around with them... so can we get more specific with it?<br /><br /><ul><li>does the japanese character thing count? <br /></li></ul >The paragogical principles<br /><br /><ul><li>context as decentered center<ul><li>trying to improve governance of p2pu ... run course together</li ><li>other principles more minor?</li></ul ></li ><li>meta-learning as a font of knowledge</li ><li>peers are equal but different</li ><li>learning is distributed and nonlinear</li ><li>realize your dream then wake up! <br /></li></ul >Implementing Paragogy<br />This lesson is based on my experiences in several enrichment courses at P2PU, in Autumn 2010 and Winter 2011. Some of the courses went well, and others didn't, and I was curious about why. Charles Jeffery Danoff and I wrote up some of our inital thoughts on this topic in a short  paper called Paragogy: Synergizing individual and organizational learning  (2011), but we needed another round of experiments to put our ideas  into practice. This lesson integrates what we've learned in our second round and will help you work through the process of designing a  peer-to-peer learning experience. In turn, your feedback on this process will help take the theory of paragogy to the next level! More information on how to submit feedback will be provided below. For now, your first task is to begin designing a new course.<br /><br />plan: 10 minutes/task<br /><br />Task 1: Select your topic wisely - approp for the tech<br /><ul><li>our conversation was going to happen anyway but we're the only people here?</li ><li>and every time people don't show up, it seems likely that they feel bad and won't necessarily show up again. <br /></li></ul >We've found that some of the most successful learning experiences enhance projects that were "going to happen anyway". For example, Marisa Ponti and I were planning to write a book chapter on the topic of Open Governance and Learning,  and we decided to convert our abstract for the chapter into a syllabus for a 6 week course. Our conversations were going to happen anyway, but now they have expanded to include a lively discussion with a diverse group of interested participants, including some contributions from noted experts in the field. (But in a 02 March 2011 chat the only participants are Marisa, Joe &amp; Charles)<br /><br />For contrast, consider the Short Calculus course I ran contemporaneously with the one I just mentioned. I had to hunt hard to even find candidate participants for this course, and it  did not come as much of a surprise when participation turned out to be  very low.<br /><br />DIY Math was perhaps even worse??<br /><br /><ul><li>choice of topic is crticial<ul><li>hesitant: doing an opinon poll ... what are you interested in? (note: p2p is doing this )<ul><li>b/c people don't always know what they want</li ><li>something emergent is difficult ... we need to explore it ... can be developed in the course of a course</li ><li>beckett: Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. <a href="http://pages.citebite.com/f4q3f2f9hire">http://pages.citebite.com/f4q3f2f9hire</a></li ><li> <br /></li></ul ></li></ul ></li></ul >Principle: Realize your dream then wake up!<br />The topic you pick should help you realize your dream. Ideally as you sketch out the topic in a bit more detail, you'll be able to  find others who share the same dream to a reasonable extent. In  addition, once the course has progressed far enough, you should get a  sense that you've reached its potential.<br />Cf. the "starting a movement" video that was shared on the P2PU list...<br /><br /><br />Task 2: Engage your peers in the design process early on<br />Whether it's by talking with friends with whom you share an interest, or running a survey to get feedback from interested participants  online, making the design of the course into a collaborative process may  encourage buy in; and it will certainly help you decide many  pragmatic points. Do you need live meetings, or will an asynchronous discussion do just fine? What sort of background do people have (or should they have) with the topic? Etc.<br />For purposes of this exercise, it's enough to write down a few questions that you'll want to ask would-be participants before the  course starts.<br /><br /><ul><li>what are you really interested in doing?</li ><li>course might not be the right way to do that?<ul><li>but there is no harm in doing the course, right?</li></ul ></li ><li>connect course to larger body of work</li ><li>blog was good? allowing other people with similar interests to connect to the blog &amp; participate if they want ... maybe they don't want to  connect now, but they might want to connect in the future ... blog is an  artifact that can connect to larger groups/network dealing with open  governance &amp; topics related to open-ness ... in this way we might find other people able to </li ><li>e.g. ?<ul><li><a href="http://www.wandel.person.dk/japanese.html">http://www.wandel.person.dk/japanese.html</a> ... slower process "peer" producing something</li></ul ></li ><li>flaw?<ul><li>peer learning exp's aren't designed, they just happen</li ><li>when do we need design? <br /></li></ul ></li></ul >large-scale social networking!!<br />when do we need "design"???<br /><br />Principle: Peers are equal but different<br />Peer learners work together to create the key resources in the course -- learning opportunities  that come from interaction. Presumably you'll want to foster an egalitarian culture: remember that in peer learning there isn't anyone  who dictates what others have to do. However, this doesn't mean that the course should be a structureless blob. Some participants will want more overt structures given to them, others will want to create new ones. Does your course accommodate people with these and other personal characteristics?<br /><br />- get peopled in this that would be good<br />- P2PU context: just using standard social networking tools to help people identify their common interest<br />-- can go beyond the P2PU context itself and connect a course to a broader context<br /><ul><li>middle way? what works for you? ... requires a fair amount of self-knowledge or self-questioning ... <ul><li>maybe you need to get to a certain level of self-work on a topic to make it clear enough that people can <br /></li></ul ></li></ul >conditions that promote your learning -- this could be kept track of in a learner profile.<br /><br />software development: put it out there right away, even though you know it isn't going to have major uptake until later.<br /> - easy? until it is as easy as Etherpad, it is too difficult!<br /> <br />Maybe we haven't developed paragogy enough for it to work very well, but that's OK because we are still in the "beta" period.<br />probably paragogy is like a "framework" at this stage<br />in order to develop a "theory" it is necessary to establish connections with long-established theories of learning<br /><br /><br /><br />Marisa: well actually wenger saus that you do not design learning<br />Marisa: but only the conditions that promote or hinder learning<br />Marisa: but of course a point is what is learning?<br />Marisa: got disconnected?<br />donald duck: what were you saying :)<br />Marisa: takes a lot of time to develop a "theory"<br />Marisa: if this is what you have in mind<br /><br />critique of P2PU?<br /><ul><li>not negative enough? ... difficulty of task is washed away ... instead of actually doing stuff we just talk about how wonderful p2pu is</li ><li>Jaron Lanier?</li ><li> <br /></li></ul >Task 3: Make the scope and structure clear<br />You don't have to provide everything, but as a course (co-)organizer,  you are likely to be largely responsible for finding (or creating) the  initial set of resources for the course. P2PU has been described as  follows: think of it as book clubs for open educational resources. That pointer may be helpful (or potentially confusing).<br /><br />The question to sort out here is what shape your course is likely to take. Is it even appropriate to think of it as a course,  or would it be better to think about it as some other sort of  structured activity? Be as explicit as possible. It is OK to put your answer in the form of further questions to ask to course participants before the course begins, or at its outset. However, note that if part of the course is building the course, you must make sure that the course participants are really up for it,  and make sure the overall course design is sufficiently flexible to  accomodate changes.<br /><br />For example, in the first week of the Mathematics for Game Designers course, many of the particpants declared that they mainly wanted to  write code -- but many of these people were not heard from much after  the first week.<br /><br />Principle: Learning is distributed and nonlinear<br /><br />Given the ongoing difficulties I've had organizing mathematics courses on P2PU, and the comparative success of programming and other computer-related courses, I've spent a lot of time thinking about what I might be doing wrong  as a course organizer. Then I think back to my original goal for these courses, namely, to build a useful bridge between P2PU and PlanetMath.org. This can only happen slowly. In particular, it seems essential for PlanetMath to offer much better support for independent mathematics  learners. There is then a serious question to consider, about how peer learning is useful in mathematics.<br />The key point is that you may find an important part of your course's critical mass elsewhere -- but the any external resources you choose  need to be the right ones.<br /><br />              Task 4: Define your objectives            <br /><br />I'm personally not a great fan of the term learning objectives; in light of the principle we just discussed, I think they can be too  hard to specify. However, I do think there is significant value to be obtained by being clear about your objectives in general.<br /><br />In one of the key documents of the Sarvodaya Shramadana Movement, A. T. Ariyaratne tells a story of how working with a group of villagers to  clarify their real objectives resulted in them getting out of a tangle  of red tape and resolving their problem directly [1]. To sort all of this out, you may need to get to the (third) norming stage from Bruce Tuckman's theory of group development in order to find shared objectives, and this is not likely to happen overnight.<br /><br />For the purposes of this exercise, it is enough to come up with some your own most important objectives for the course, possibly including a  rough time-table. You can later invite course participants to go through a similar exercise.<br /><br />learning math: it's not just a cool idea, but rather something that we have to understand better<br /><br />research: what are the objectives here? To try to become plausible. It is EXTREMELY difficult to find out how people learn. Not sure if "learning" will be the follow-up topic.<br /><br />conditions at this point do not reall<br />Principle: Meta-learning as a font of knowledge<br /><br />Frankly, I have not been doing this long enough to know precisely what works and what doesn't work. Indeed, one of the themes of paragogy is that even after a rich career in peer-to-peer learning one would  still be learning a lot -- that's part of the point! It may be helpful to address the question what do I hope to learn about the learning process through my work in this course?<br /><br />One way to amp up your meta-learning is to acknowledge the need to support it explicitly. This lesson plan reflects on several courses I was organizing or co-organizing, but has been developed as an assignment  in another course where I've been (twice!) a participant, Collaborative Lesson Planning. P2PU maintains various structures to help -- a good place to ask questions is the general community mailing list, or the research list.<br /><br />When are we learning something interesting?<br /><br /><ul><li>p2pu ... create a roadmap?</li ><li>joe's a goal oriented person ... doesn't apply to others<ul><li>maybe joe could write his own p2pu roadmap?</li ><li>we should not glorify P2PU, in the sense that it </li></ul ></li ><li>Marisa's objective: learning how it works? how does Marisa do research?<ul><li>cannot be detatched</li ><li>this is her (big word) position</li ><li>qualitative researcher ... Cf. tacit assumption of science</li ><li>do not assume researchers can be detatched to be effective</li ><li>try to explain best i can all the choices i make ... not in order for others to replicate, but more to understand every step of the process</li ><li>it is extremely difficult to understand how people learn</li ><li>there isn't any one approach that is used all the time -- people do all kinds of different things<ul><li>not job to say good or not</li ><li>very difficult to undersand</li ><li>data allows me to understand many different things</li ><li>congrats Marisa!</li ><li>don't insist too much on the idea of creating courses as we know ... maybe there are other opportunities for developing learning opportunites in p2pu? affinitive spaces?</li></ul ></li ><li>conditions do not allow people to learn</li ><li>role of technologies - elearning &amp; digital media paper.</li></ul ></li></ul >affinity spaces: people gathering together be<br /><ul><li>online and offline</li ><li>p2p is good place for learning, but is it a good object of study?</li></ul >fan of mathematics? ... can be, but may not impress the girls at the bar cf. "beautiful mind" ... nice counter<br />p2pu open to every topic, but only covers a few topics- but this is ok<br />there is the need to accommodate diversity of needs and interests<br /><br />Task 5: Report back<br />This lesson will be undergoing development as long as feedback keeps coming in: you can get in touch by emailing the author directly (contact  details below) -- or you can just dive in and edit this Wikiversity  page. Since at present I'm just playtesting this lesson, I'd be particularly curious to know what flaws or omissions you see in it, and  in what ways you've found it useful. If you run the courses you've designed with the help of this plan, I will be very curious to know how  they go, and your feedback will be hugely valuable in improving this  document for next time. I hope that by including this participatory component, I've also made a good example of a paragogical lesson plan! :)<br /><br /><ul><li>basic question: has this exercise been useful?<ul><li>Charlie's answer: yes</li ><li>what would we report back to p2pu? or to some broader context? what are we gonna</li></ul ></li ><li>outcomes: a way to evaluate paragogy is by the outcomes. If Charlie writes a paper that is useful and/or published then it is probably useful. Yes, this is a good point - a rating system can be used</li ><li>rating system can be part of peer-production<ul><li>please expand Marisa?</li ><li>seems like Amazon is an example... yeah Amazon is an example ... people rate your work! put a rating system near papers on my website? and/or how often something is dugg or liked on facebook?</li></ul ></li ><li>outcome has to be expanded</li ><li>gets back to what is a good evaluation?<ul><li>individual based &amp; other options</li></ul ></li ><li>how can we send a message to the larger context?<ul><li>3 of us write papers? / collab paper?</li ><li>edit the course handbook in the p2pu wiki?</li ><li>joe: write angry memo, then put it away for a few weeks</li ><li>joe's blog post: link = ... he will focus more on planet math</li ><li>joe's take home paragogy... is useful in other contexts.</li ><li>evaluation of this exercise?<ul><li>comments on blog post in <a href="http://open-governance-and-learning.posterous.com">http://open-governance-and-learning.posterous.com</a>...</li ><li>charlie: exercise was sweet, accomplished the goals of the lesson plan i believe</li ><li> <br /></li></ul ></li></ul ></li></ul >Principle: Context as decentered center<br />In paragogy, we recognize that we are not merely teachers or learners, but are actually co-creating the learning context as a whole. This is a good time to reflect on your context, generally speaking. What role does learning play in your life and in the life of your  communities? What was it that brought you here? Why this learning in this context?<br /><br />Paragogy complements didactic and other teaching modes (particularly andragogy [2]) by drawing attention to the central role of context, and the way it shapes, constrains, and supports  learning activities, and the way learning, in turn, can help people  shape the context in which they live.<br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/User:Arided/ImplementingParagogy">http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/User:Arided/ImplementingParagogy</a><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />[12:11] == danoff [180f366b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.15.54.107] has joined #p2pu-collaborative-lesson-planning-0<br />[12:11] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; It would be even cooler to see a feed of chat logs<br />[12:11] &lt;danoff&gt; hey<br />[12:12] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; I'm currently working on revising that book chapter I mentioned to you a while ago<br />[12:12] &lt;danoff&gt; with Marisa?<br />[12:12] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; it talks about "paragogy" in the final section<br />[12:12] &lt;danoff&gt; slick<br />[12:12] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; this is one with my supervisor<br />[12:12] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; I can send you a copy in a day or two<br />[12:13] &lt;danoff&gt; about like open educational resources or whatever?<br />[12:13] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; iyep<br />[12:13] &lt;danoff&gt; kk, plz do<br />[12:13] &lt;danoff&gt; and i agree it "would be even cooler to see a feed of chat logs"<br />[12:13] &lt;danoff&gt; sorry for being late, btw<br />[12:13] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; quite a simple way to make the site more interactive<br />[12:13] &lt;danoff&gt; yeah<br />[12:14] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; I guess one useful thing to do for this week would be to think more about how to make a paragogy "intervention" across P2PU<br />[12:14] &lt;danoff&gt; and also have this feed more naturally into the discussions going on within the site<br />[12:14] &lt;danoff&gt; ha<br />[12:14] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; I'm thinking about what to do for the Open Governance and Learning course<br />[12:14] &lt;danoff&gt; isn't this your week, week 5?<br />[12:15] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; yep<br />[12:15] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; but I sort of forgot about it b/c last week I was busy in programming land, thinking about PlanetMath<br />[12:15] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; will write it into my TODO list for today<br />[12:15] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; actually...<br />[12:16] &lt;danoff&gt; ...<br />[12:16] &lt;danoff&gt; it ca fit into what you just said, right?<br />[12:16] &lt;danoff&gt; can<br />[12:16] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; thinking about the idea of integrating these chat logs... that might be a good way to help avoid the sense of "activity die off" in P2PU<br />[12:17] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; sorry, fit in what?<br />[12:17] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; didn't understand<br />[12:17] &lt;danoff&gt; "how to make a paragogy "intervention" across P2PU"<br />[12:17] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; oh, yes!!<br />[12:17] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; definitely<br />[12:18] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; anything that helps make people realize that it's a shared context would work along these lines<br />[12:18] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; Well, "make" them realize might be a bit strong<br />[12:18] &lt;danoff&gt; shared context?<br />[12:19] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; I mean, if all of the different conversations going on around the site were integrated into a feed on the main page, then it would be more obvious that the site is actively shared by many people who are working on many different aspects of the project<br />[12:19] &lt;danoff&gt; and I agree "make" is a bit strong<br />[12:19] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; this is sort of how it works on PlanetMath, incidentally<br />[12:20] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; every object in PlanetMath has a discussion forum attached to it, and all of these discussions appear in one big feed on the main page<br />[12:20] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; the only problem is that with everything all jammed together like that, conversations can be a bit hard to follow<br />[12:20] &lt;danoff&gt; isn't that what they already have with the "recent activity"<br />[12:20] &lt;danoff&gt; ?<br />[12:20] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; anyway, I'll bring up the idea on the P2PU-dev list<br />[12:21] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; well, they have one at the individual level<br />[12:21] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; and at the course level<br />[12:21] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; but not at the site level<br />[12:21] &lt;danoff&gt; gotcha<br />[12:21] &lt;danoff&gt; so you wanna push P2PU in that direction in general?<br />[12:22] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; I guess it might make people feel very different about conversations if everything was public<br />[12:22] &lt;danoff&gt; and you feel its connected with paragogy?<br />[12:22] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; yes<br />[12:22] &lt;danoff&gt; please expand<br />[12:22] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; in the sense that "Shared Context as a Decentered Center" is a key point for paragogy<br />[12:22] &lt;danoff&gt; also, point to the example of it on planetmath, plx<br />[12:22] &lt;danoff&gt; plz<br />[12:22] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; The "shared context" is the "public space"<br />[12:23] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; Just look at the bottom of <a href="http://planetmath.org/">http://planetmath.org/</a><br />[12:23] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; <a href="http://planetmath.org/?op=messageschrono">http://planetmath.org/?op=messageschrono</a><br />[12:23] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; has more messages<br />[12:23] &lt;danoff&gt; latest messages?<br />[12:23] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; the little red upward-pointing triangles indicate the original context of the message<br />[12:24] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; yep<br />[12:24] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; but it is latest messages pulled from all over the site<br />[12:25] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; it would be possible to make a "P2PU Planet" that pulls in all chat logs, all forum posts, etc<br />[12:25] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; I dunno<br />[12:25] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; maybe I'm just getting the sense that people around P2PU end up getting too isolated<br />[12:25] &lt;danoff&gt; it'd be possible w/o any sort of "P2PU Planet"<br />[12:25] &lt;danoff&gt; w/in their curent software<br />[12:26] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; because courses start out with a limited number of members, and then people leave, until there are only a few left<br />[12:26] &lt;danoff&gt; its possible<br />[12:26] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; possible: I agree it would be possible w/ very small adjustments, probably an hour of work<br />[12:26] &lt;danoff&gt; agreed about the limited #'s, and then you feel that such a streaming feed would exemplify "`shared context in motion'."<br />[12:26] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; maybe another 4 hours to make it even better and pull in all sorts of other content<br />[12:26] &lt;danoff&gt; an hour of work max<br />[12:27] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; shared context in motion: exactly!!<br />[12:27] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; it's just about creating designs that implement that idea increasingly well<br />[12:28] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; And maybe it's in the process of happening... but only after a BIG discussion :)<br />[12:28] &lt;danoff&gt; you could also have something about who's in chat currently<br />[12:28] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; yep!!!<br />[12:28] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; so it is a shared live context<br />[12:29] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; would be quite nice<br />[12:29] &lt;danoff&gt; i think howard rheingold's developed social media classroom would be a good platform for p2pu<br />[12:29] &lt;danoff&gt; <a href="http://socialmediaclassroom.com/">http://socialmediaclassroom.com/</a><br />[12:29] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; will have to check it out...<br />[12:30] &lt;danoff&gt; kk, basically does what we're saying and also automatically includes member's personal blog feeds, tweets, social bookmarks, etc. &amp; has a course wiki<br />[12:30] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; sounds good<br />[12:30] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; it's curious that so many different communities feel they have to "reinvent" this technology<br />[12:30] &lt;danoff&gt; yeah<br />[12:30] &lt;danoff&gt; its a big time waster<br />[12:30] &lt;danoff&gt; re-inventing the wheel over and over<br />[12:31] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; Another place where the idea of "shared context in motion" would help<br />[12:31] &lt;danoff&gt; one sec<br />[12:31] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; I mean, if people are authentically sharing the results of their individual experiments...<br />[12:31] &lt;holtzermann17&gt; but I don't have clear evidence that that is what they are doing<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />