User talk:Atcovi/ENG225/Discussion Board Seven: Stop Lying to Yourself

Don Quixote
This seems like an assignment of some sort so I hope I'm not interfering, but my comment is merely incidental anyway. Don Quixote strikes me as far more a critique of fiction and historical fantasy than idealism per se. Cervantes is not telling the reader they shouldn't act on principle, he's telling the reader they should put down their terrible novel. I'm sure he'd have also felt the same about video games, movies, television, national news and other such mind-rotting media. In other words, Don Quixote did not suffer from self-delusion. His delusions were impressed upon him externally. He was an idealist before he was Don Quixote and rather than acting on those instincts directly, he was diverted entirely by the absurd and romanticized narrative of fiction, which at the time was apparently published without clear distinction from real historical accounts. Even more true today than back when Cervantes wrote the book. His friends had the right idea by destroying the corrupting influence that originated Don Quixote's dementia, though they were too late to help him. A cautionary tale, perhaps. Incidentally it is quite easy to fight an old-time windmill if need be, but you're better off with kerosene than a sword. Any artifice of man can be destroyed, it's a matter of picking the right tool for the job. AP295 (discuss • contribs) 02:37, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Really, Don Quixote's integrity and sense of principle were his strongest points, not sources of delusion. The speech he gave comparing men of letters and men of chivalry was quite lucid and his audience was moved by it. It is the cheap aesthetic of fiction that debases his noble character. It's almost kind of a shame the word "Quixotic" has come to be a derisive synonym for "principled" rather than "brainwashed". AP295 (discuss • contribs) 02:56, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello AP295. Indeed this is an assignment, but I do welcome your comments. I will begin reading a portion of this novel and will account for your insightful examination of the novel - hopefully having something intelligent to respond to your comments with. Thanks for your comment! —Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 03:04, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about it. My actual impression of the book and its message was quite different from what I had expected, and in a good way I suppose. AP295 (discuss • contribs) 03:14, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Cervantes Bio

 * A satire
 * Asks some questions and provides a quick overview.

Life

 * 'Biography: Son of an apothecary, born near Madrid, 1569 living in Rome. Became a soldier under Don John vs. the Ottomans. Survived the Battle of Lepanto, but then ambused by pirates.. Bought as a slave by Hassan Pasha in/near 1575. Cervantes was ransomed on 1580 and came back to Madrid. Started to produce liteary works (10-20 plays, Galatea [preview of DQ]). Had a daughter and married Catalina. Wasn't a very good navy-sman, so he spent time in prison. Served as tax collector in Granada but stopped at 1597. In 1604, DQ recieved publication license and was an instant success the next year. Still lived poor in Madrid. Had three books published, one after 1616 [his death].

Times

 * Spain was massive, having land in Italy and Flanders. Ruled by Philip II, did some annexation of the Portuguese crown and a number of other empires worldwide in 1580, Cervantes could've been rich if he took bribes. Debt amassed and the 1588 defeat by England screwed Philip II's era. Muslims and Jews felt oppression, while Cervantes was Christian. Cervantes sarcastically pointed out the blabber nonsense his society was doing in "The Miracle Show" and his version of "The Emperor's New Clothes".
 * The Counter-Reformation was facing threats by the Protestants and humanist reformers. The Muslims were forcibly expelled (Moriscos). In "The Captive's Tale" of part I & II - he points this out in his own book.

Don Quixote

 * DQ stood out as a novel because of its serious elements covered over a mocking blanket.
 * Proclaimed purpose: "satirize the romances of chivalry". Goes into a great detail of the literacy elements of the novel * source of Cervantes plots.
 * Discusses 1st consequence of combining genres. Talks through DQ's perspective and its plot setting. He is not a "cavalier", but is an "impoverished country gentleman". His squire, Sancho Panza, is too delusional and looks for material wealth.
 * DQ and other characters are modeling their lives after books. "All must make their peace with the reality of the world that surrounds them".
 * Points out DQ as a character. End of chapter 8: story DONE!
 * Finding more text to Cervantes' 'most interesting narrative games': 2nd author Cid Hamete Benengeli. We find out his intentions in part II of the story.
 * "Generally speaking, the encounters between the ordinary world and Don Quixote confront reality with illusion, and reason with imagination".
 * Mentions popular tactics of DQ. Although he was mad, they always had a method and reasoning. Sees the descent of the 'chivalric' ideals. Also examines the 'anachronism of individual heroics': new methods of warfare & episode of the lions (part II, chapter 17). Takes on challenges, ambiguous differences between truth and illusion, and questionable facts prove to be disruptive - more outlooks on social justice. Legacy of DQ.

Part 1

 * "Book" --> "child of my brain".
 * Cervantes is open for the reader's opinion and interpretation: "Under my cloak I kill the king.".
 * Details the difficulty in writing the prologue: A friend had to encourage him to keep writing the story of Don Quixote. He started experiencing doubt in his book. The book will also be lacking in 'prefatory sonnets' according to him. He believes his book won't make it big.
 * His friend says that these little things cannot worry his smart mind. He proposes the solution: take the sonnets, epigrams, eulogies and then take the pieces and compose of them, himself - finally, pen them under a famous poet.
 * He can cite sayings he likes, as long as he sources them. His friend provides several examples. DQ can write down the stories and he can do the notes/citations. He then provides advice for this. He points out the book attacks the 'chivalry' which no previous authors mentioned.
 * His book will be unique and his styles are unique [in linguistics], to the point he doesn't need to beg the philosophers for advice.
 * He concludes with a positive encouragement. DQ was convinced he needs to go on.
 * Begins with an account of the famous Don Quixote de la Mancha, he is the most chaste lover and valiant knight, according to Campo de Montiel. Mentions Sancho Panza, his squire, as the best of all squires. Ends with a prayer.

Chapter 1

 * Village of La Mancha (Madrid): a nearly 50-year-old man [Quejana] and a 40-year-old housekeeper, a young niece, and a field and marketplace.
 * Quejana really loved learning about chivalry through the books of chivalry. He liked 16th-century author Feliciano de Silva. He didn't get certain passages, which would keep him up at night.
 * He debated with the village curate on who's better, Palmerin of England or Amadis of Gaul. Nick the Barber said the Knight of Phoebus was better, but maybe Don Galaor was alright (brother of Amadis of Gaul). Quejana got too consumed by his reading that he'd spend debating knights of his own (he loved Rinaldo of Montalban).
 * He wanted to become a knight next, but he couldn't find a closed helmet. He made his own helmet out of cardboard of a half-helmet. He named his nag, "Rocinante".
 * Quejana --> Don Quixote de la Mancha. After the name change, he started fancying a woman, so he found a good-looking farm girl [Aldonza Lorenzo, or according to Don Quixote: "Dulcinea del Toboso"].

Chapter 2 [pg. 15]

 * He didn't want to delay his seeking cuz he was scared of the world that he couldn't save in that time. On a day in July, he set out this expedition only to realize he's not officially a knight. He decided to be knighted by the first person he met [+ he would look for a white armor the first chance he'd get].
 * [talks to himself throughout the voyage]
 * Finds an inn to recuperate himself for the voyage.
 * At the inn, they were near some mule drivers on their way to Seville. He reined in Rocinante and expected a dwarf to welcome him, but that did not happen.
 * A dwarf signalled his horn to round some pigs, but DQ took this as his welcoming and presented himself in front of the two ladies. The ladies laughed at him. He came off as fat and couldn't fit into his knight armour. DQ called the landowner the "Castellan", because he believed him as the governor of the castle. The governor commanded him a rock to sleep, ironically so he can stay up and keep guard. DQ was ready, albeit showing how 'delusional' he was, to guard the castle. He has codfish for food. He was given everything he needed - but he wasn't dubbed a knight yet.

Chapter 3
[page 23]
 * DQ wants to be dubbed as a knight and the innkeeper is ok with giving him his request. The landlord adds his piece of history and even corrects DQ: knights have money and an on-the-move injury kit! The unreliable narrator puts in his 2 cents, critiquing the landlord's stance. DQ promptly followed this advice and started pacing up and down in front of the trough, guarding his armor in a large barnyard.
 * DQ gets mad at one of the mule drivers for touching his armor. DQ attacks 2 muleteers that touch his armour. DQ was lost in his delusional as he was actively fighting back.
 * They did a ceremony for him and dubbed him so he can stop his rampage. A lady by the name of Dona Tolosa and the daughter of respectable miller of Antequera (Dona Molinera) welcomed him and rendered her further services and favors.

Chapter 4

 * Leaves the inn. Looks for a squire, maybe the poor man who was a neighbor? He hears someone being punished. He hears the situation [pg. 24], but ignores the farmer [Juan Haldudo]. He tells him to pay him his wages and free him. The boy says he is owed 63 reales, but the farmer provides arguments against that.
 * "let the shoes and the blood lettings go for the undeserved lashings" + some other demands [pg. 24], but the farmer has no money but will pay him regardless. DQ lets the farmer go with Andres, even to Andres' dismay.
 * DQ leaves promising Andres that he WILL pay him for all of his works and not flog him... but Juan flogs him. But regardless, DQ praises himself for his 'great' work.
 * They go straight through a 4-way, where he finds merchants [pg. 26]. He demands to know of the Empress of La Mancha, the peerless Dulcinea del Toboso. They say they wanna see her, but DQ knows they going to compete with him heavily for her. They insult her appearance sarcastically, to which DQ gets hella mad. He tries to charge at him, but fails hilariously.
 * DQ gets jumped but continues to cuss out the merchants. He sees this as "the toughest soldiers get the best trials" sort of deal.

Chapter 6

 * Thinks of a passage from a book to make himself feel better: Baldwin and the Marquis of Mantua [pg. 28].
 * A farmer hears DQ's ridiculous chanting, so he takes off his visor and sees that it is Senior Quejana. He tries to figure out what's up with him and his bloodless wounds, but to no avail. He recalls another story. The farmer has had enough and takes him to DQ's original house. The housekeeper spoke to the curate and barber, who thought he died. The niece pretty much said the same thing. Goes into his obsession with chivalry books, delusions, and the cold water jug. DQ and the farmer heard this and urged them to come out. He said he had a big fight with "giants", but didn't have wounds to prove it. He slept.

Chapter 7
FIGHT OF THE WINDMILLS
 * Remained at home for a couple of weeks, talking to the curate and the barber.
 * He convinced a local, neighbor idiot to be his squire.
 * Wanted to get money and a good donkey for Sancho Panza. He wants to govern the island his knight promised him. In case Sancho becomes king, he will have Juana Gutierrez as his queen.
 * DQ wants his squire to aim for the stars when it comes to rising in the ranks.

Chapter 8

 * 30-40 windmills = lawless giants. The squire protests this label.
 * Couldn't find the first windmill without being shocked and almost destroyed.
 * DQ dismays Sancho's exclamation and dismisses his loss as a "fortune of war" - attributes this horrible incident to magician Freston (robber). DQ lost his lance in the battle.
 * DQ tells the story of Diego Perez de Vargas [page 34].
 * Squires can complain, not knights. Sancho eats and is happy to be on adventures even if they are mad dangerous.
 * DQ couldn't sleep because he kept thinking about Lady Dulcinea. No breakfast, they continued their adventure. DQ says Sancho can't defend him unless its low-graded men or he's been dubbed a knight.
 * FRIAR STORY [PG. 35]: He views these friars accompanying a wife who is saying bye to her husband [who got promoted to a high post in the Indies] as a "bearing them a captive princess".
 * DQ failed as he tried to charge at 'em with his horse, but fell on the ground like an idiot. His squire got beaten up.
 * A Biscayan fights DQ after he refused to let the coach pass. Although the Biscayan laid heavy blows, DQ is left with raising his sword towards him in a suspenseful moment - only for the story to end.

Chapter 9

 * Story ends on a suspenseful note.