User talk:Beetstra

 Hi, and welcome to my talk page.

I am Dirk Beetstra, my main projects are en:User:Beetstra and m:User:Beetstra

My main edits here will concern editors performing the same edits on more than one wikipedia. Some general texts about such edits:

meta external links policy

matrix of local policies and pages

If you want to contact me quickly, leave a message here on en or here on meta!

My edits here

My edits here will mainly be due to removal of unwanted external links and vandalism. Generally the edits have been performed on a (large) number of wikipedia, and the edits were very similar in nature.

Terms I use in my edit summaries:
 * 'cross-wiki spam' or 'xwiki spam' -> a user has been adding the link(s) I am removing/reverting to a large number of wikipedia. The link may already be blacklisted on meta (see m:Talk:Spam blacklist).

For more information, see my meta userpage: m:User:Beetstra.

User:COIBot on Meta
HI beetstra,

just in case you are wondering why i did not post this to your page on Meta, the simple answer is I cannot.

Here is my questionː in 2012 this bot added my username to the COI list, but I only became aware of it today. I wonder if you can tell me why I am still suspected of a COI? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (discuss • contribs) 21:44, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi user:Ottawahitech, thanks for the question. There are currently basically two reasons why you can be in reports:
 * Either your username overlaps with a subject you edit / domainname you add. If someone creates a username that looks like their company name (e.g. 'mycompany') and then starts adding 'mycompany.com' then that is a clear indication of a possible conflict of interest.  However, that system will throw false positives, if I were to edit Beetstra I would score 100% overlap.  If you were to edit Ottawa or High tech you would likely score an overlap of ~30-40% on each.  However, those are not conflicts of interest.  So any of those cases need to be examined case-by-case.  (note, that if I would write a page on myself on en.wikipedia I would score likely ~70 overlap, and the bot would be correct in flagging me).
 * Some reports are generated because we are interested on how external links are being used. Seeing if (and how) other people are using the link we are looking at helps spam-fighters in determining what is the best cause of action: blacklist locally, blacklist globally, just remove the spammed material, block the only editor who is spamming.  Sometimes good editors show up in those lists as the link does have good use (and we would generally not blacklist).  On other cases good editors appear in the lists because they reverted a spammed link back in (spammer adds link that does not get removed, vandal blanks the section the link is in, other editor reverts the vandalism but does not notice there is a spammed link in there).
 * The template w:en:User:COIBot/Summary/LinkReports explains it better than on en.wikipedia. Anyway, it is all case-by-case to be examined, and even cases that are confirmed still do not result in actions against the users except for continued or rather blatant spam cases.  Moreover, we have to take into account that not all wikis treat/define COI similarly.  --Beetstra (discuss • contribs) 08:31, 14 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi


 * Thank you for the friendly and elaborate response. I would like to explain why I posted this question to you on your wikiversity page, but unfortunately it may cause me further difficulties, so with regret I cannot provide diffs or even name the wiki they occured on.


 * Let me try to give you some points that may help:
 * On the 3rd of February 2012 I was indef-blocked on the main wmf-project. This event was a total surrpise to me as at that point I had been contributing content to that project for several years with no hint of any blocks. The blocking admin posted to my user page 25 edits starting from the time their block was initiated, and ending a couple of weeks later.


 * The block itself was lifted by another admin within a few hours, but exposed me to some pretty ugly behaviour from other users if I remember correctly. Also, it appears in hindsight that the block was lifted on a technicality, and not because the unblocking admin truly believed I was faultless. I know this now, but at the time I had no interest in the wiki-bureaucracy and was totally intimidated by the whole affair.


 * The reason I am telling you this is because I figure, but am not sure, that my 2012 indefinite block has a connection to the entry on your COI list, which also occured in 2012. Since that time I have been indef-blocked again 3 times, and my talk page access was revoked on one of those projects. I did not attempt to appeal those blocks since I believe my situation is futile.


 * Do you think there is a connection between the Meta-COI-2012 entry and my 2012-indefblock? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (discuss • contribs) 14:50, 14 April 2020 (UTC) (note to self: Looks like I am starting to learn how to produce wallsoftext, sigh...)


 * User:Ottawahitech: I very, very much doubt that. For what is left of the reports of pre-2013 report-generations by COIBot (many may have been overwritten) I do not see any reason to suspect that someone came to you because of a report saved by COIBot, and I even doubt that they used it in their reasoning.  Unless someone has been so thick that they found the COIBot-reported connection 'Ottawahitech' <-> 'Ottawa' a block-worthy COI issue.  For me, the reason was that your username is representing an 'organisation' and hence your username would fall in the 'promotional usernames'-category.  Since you've been editing for quite some time, my approach there would probably have been to 'let it go' (thanks, now I have that song in my mind) or maybe (small maybe) to leave a note on your talkpage to suggest to request a username-change.  I understand, and don't disagree with, the underlying concern, but an immediate block was there strongly overdone, to say the least.  --Beetstra (discuss • contribs) 15:28, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Most other editors, especially admins or admin-wannabes, have ignored me since my 2017 Blocks, so your friendly attitude stands out even more!


 * Back to the topic of COI, I still believe that it is the cause of the negative reception I had experienced. Otherwise why would the 2012 blocking admin tell me to read WP:COI and WP:ADVERT? Ottawahitech (discuss • contribs) 11:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)


 * User:Ottawahitech: being an admin, they also would have had access to the deleted version of your userpage, and anyone has to Google. Your username does suggest a company focusing on high tech based in Ottawa.  They could have done a search and found such a link in 2012.
 * I am afraid we can speculate whatever we want. Yes, maybe editors in 2012 saw something that they found the need to warn you about, and maybe that block was completely wrongly based on a COIBot report.  First, I don't think that they would remember what their reasoning was 8 years ago, secondly, if they remember they would probably not say whether the report was a major part of the process, and third, they are unlikely to say that they were wrong.
 * Anyway that block was overturned in 3 hours for being rather over the top, and your next block is 4 years later and does not seem to have any relation to the first one (though the 'you have been blocked before' is certainly a possible reason for a second block). --Beetstra (discuss • contribs) 14:03, 16 April 2020 (UTC)


 * My userpage was deleted both on enwiki and on meta. I was not informed of these deletions, did not realize my pages were deleted until much later, still have no clue why they were deleted, and since i have no access to private email I know admins are not permitted to publicly share this information with me. There. Cheers, Ottawahitech (discuss • contribs) 14:29, 16 April 2020 (UTC) oh, and I don't remember what i put in them, except i can assure evryone it was nothing sinister. Ottawahitech (discuss • contribs) 14:35, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * user:Ottawahitech: your page on meta was created by a vandal. Your page on en was made by you in 2007.  I can see it, I would call it a bit soapbox-y, spammy, but 2007 was different than now.  You can say you figured out much later, but you were immediately notified.  —Beetstra (discuss • contribs) 18:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it appears I WAS notified at the time. I immediately recognized the user who left the deletion message on my page. I remember finding my way over to post a message in response with difficulty, because at that time I did not fully understand what talk-pages and user-pages were and how to find my way to one. This is the complete message I posted in response on 11:42, 26 September 2007. :

I know your lengthy introduction is meant to be funny, but please also remember that not everyone who is forced to visit your talk page is a “criminal”.

I am a (very) new Wikipedia (wannabee) “editor”. I created a new Wikipedia entry for a candidate in the upcoming Ontario elections. I am not here to “spam”, and I do not have a “conflict of interest”. What I am though, is very confused about how one is actually supposed to enter material and who calls the shots here. You are the third official looking editor who has commented on the material I created. The first Wikipedia official (JodyB) deleted my original entry, but after some discussion and advice back and forth decided to re-instate the improved version. Someone else (I forget who) also want(s/ed) to delete this entry and now you. Here is what I saw before I entered my article (and decided to be bold): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction

How can I help? Don't be afraid to edit — anyone can edit almost any page, and we encourage you to be bold! Find something that can be improved, whether content, grammar or formatting, and make it better. You can't break Wikipedia. Anything can be fixed or improved later. So go ahead, edit an article and help make Wikipedia the best information source on the Internet!

Ottawahitech 11:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Reposting here in its entirety to help me reconstruct the events in my own mind. Thanks again for allowing me to explore this pre-history. Ottawahitech (discuss • contribs) 19:29, 16 April 2020 (UTC)


 * user:Ottawahitech: I feel we are diverging. The reasoning and what you did around the 2007 userpage deletion in itself has nothing to do with the block.  The point I was making above is that I could see that that content was deemed spammy and/or soapboxing, and that it could give rise to the appearance of a COI.  As I said earlier, it is a complete guess what the editor(s) who was/were looking at your Wikipedia account at that time were thinking (did they google 'ottawahitech' and seeing possible relations there, did they look at your deleted userpage, or was there a worrying COIBot report, it is nearly impossible to trace back).  Your best guess is to start a discussion with that blocking editor and hope they remember something.  And then, it has nothing to do with your second block 5 years later (as I read the block reason).  To me, the first block was even just an honest mistake by that admin, and it does not seem to have influenced the second block in any form.  --Beetstra (discuss • contribs) 11:05, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Happy holidays
Hi, Happy hollidays. Ottawahitech (discuss • contribs) 17:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)