User talk:Gaon Yincang Abhinava

 Hello Gaon Yincang Abhinava, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. All users are expected to abide by our Privacy policy, Civility policy, and the Terms of Use while at Wikiversity.

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You don't need to be an educator to edit. You only need to be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage. See you around Wikiversity! --Abd 22:51, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

The Advent of WikiCredentials ( Wikicreds. )
" WIKICREDS "  A BOLD LIMITLESS VISION

 An Educational Utopia shared by the World's populace through awarded accredidation.

Hello Friends, Teachers and Fellow Students, My name is Gaon, and I firmly believe Wikiversity should include " WikiCredentials " ( WikiCreds ) upon the completion of Testing courses. This would inspire Millions around the world to learn and challenge our societies present accredidation system... and change our culture's perception of credentialism. It is time for freedom of thought to Flourish, where anyone can learn and be accredited, regardless of age, mental capacity, location, economic status or the inability to pay tuition. Wikiversity could rival and surpass the Best education available, If we have the desire and diligence to fulfill this Grand Vision........

it would be The Most Good for the Most People, Literally, Billions of people. Do we have what it takes to fulfill this expansive, innovative and BOLD endeavor? Kind regards, Intelligent Discussion Welcomed.

Sincerely Gaon Abhinava 20:42, 23 July 2011 (UTC) Questions and Answers

 ( Q ) 


 * What does "credential" mean to you? What does "WikiCredential" mean to you? What do you consider to be the differences and similarities between "credential" and "WikiCredential"? -- dark lama  15:56, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

 ( A ) 

Wikicredentials would be the equivalent of Bachelors,Associates, Masters and Docters degrees, Along with Re-Certifications and continuing education amongst the many occupations that exist in the Global workforce.

The Similarities between Credentials and WikiCredentials = They are both Evidence or testimonials concerning one's right to credit, confidence, or authority.

The Differences Between Credentials and WikiCredentials =  WikiCreds are Free to earn by effort, Traditional Credentials cost thousands of dollars. Gaon Abhinava 20:42, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

 ( Q ) 

Would something like Wikimaster on wikieducator fit the bill?Leutha 17:00, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

 ( A ) 

Yes, Wikimasters can earn WikiCreds. also, it is Continuing education. Anybody in the world can earn WikiCreds.... if they have determination, time, and internet access. --Gaon Abhinava 20:42, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

The Establishment of WickiCredentials

We need to raise awareness of this idea, and determine if we will get a great return on this investment. This is a team effort, and strategic plans can be Formulated to construct it's Genesis. -- Gaon Abhinava 20:44, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

What Do You Think about WikiCredentials? Intelligent Discussion Welcomed. Gaon Abhinava 20:48, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

There are web sites trying to offer free courses and certifications

 * The topic has been discussed and Wikiversity does not offer certification. There are, however, other sites that do. --Bernhard Fastenrath 10:42, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find the link yesterday. Here it is: http://www.uopeople.org/. That's probably what you want. Of course you are free to publish a course on Wikiversity and on the University of the People (UoPeople) site, at least I'm not aware that this would break Wikiversity's "not a degree-granting institution" rule. --Bernhard Fastenrath 12:29, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You probably wouldn't be able to offer a course on uopeople.org. What I meant was actually peer-2-peer-university ("... but P2PU certificates are more 'artworks' than 'degrees' ...") --Bernhard Fastenrath 12:55, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, I will research this, Check out my simple proposol, at the Colloqium. It is Mind Boggeling, and would work.--Gaon Abhinava 15:26, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Gaon, perhaps you made a "simple proposal" at the Colloquium, but it is buried amongst a vast complexity. I look at the moment and see 11 topics started by you, over the last few days. I am going to push all those to a subpage, and suggest that you strictly limit what you contribute directly to the main Colloquium page. The subpage will be Colloquium/Gaon Yincang Abhinava. That will effectively be your corner of the Colloquium. People may Watchlist it if they want, or ignore it if they want. Ignoring the Colloquium, taking it off one's watchlist, damages the community conversation at Wikiversity. I'll leave behind a link, and I'll assist in periodically noting whatever discussions are taking place on your subpage.
 * In general, the structure and decision-making process that would be required for granting meaningful degrees does not exist on Wikiversity. I will, in fact, be working to create something that could lead to such process, but this may not be ready for quite some time. Most likely, though, Wikiversity itself will never confer degrees, there is a conflict with the basic, open nature of Wikiversity. However, external institutions can (and do!) use Wikiversity resources a part of what they offer. It's conceivable that a degree-granting institution could entirely use Wikiversity, but ... not for the degree-granting part, the part where student performance is assessed, and that's crucial to the granting of recognition. Otherwise recognition means nothing.
 * So if you want to help create educational resources, as to the education itself, Wikiversity is for you.
 * If you want to create free (or, more practically, cheap) degree-granting institutions, you might meet people interested in that here, but you and those people will need to work off-wiki, independently, to develop the process, to create the necessary institutions.
 * Before you proceed, you need to disabuse yourself of certain fixed ideas. You think, for example, that degrees are very expensive. While that's true in terms of invested time, it's not necessarily true in terms of money. Many people, upon showing some qualification, some aptitude or prior accomplishment, receive grants, scholarships, and, even more broadly, loans. For some of these, they actually receive in excess of tuition, they receive assistance with living expenses while engaged in study.
 * It's a complex issue. Exploring it, pushing the boundaries of what is possible, will take extensive work. "Ideas" are only a small part of this. What you have been writing is like telling a homeless person that what they need is a house, without actually building the house. Or you tell them what the house can be like. Let's have a discussion about houses! Wouldn't a house be great! Certainly houses are possible, and they should be free for everyone! Isn't that a great idea?
 * Here, at Wikiversity, we are at work on a piece of a possible house. This piece is "free," but that doesn't mean there was no cost. Our project is designed so that people may contribute what they can afford, and what we develop here isn't actually part of the house itself, consider it a collection of plans for pieces, templates for making "knowledge." Anyone may use those templates and build some knowledge, and that knowledge might become the house, i.e, "an education."
 * Good luck. --Abd 15:46, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Very well Described, Agreed.--Gaon Abhinava 04:29, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Making many edits where one could do
Gaon, it seems you are not using Preview to check your edits before saving them. As a result, you are flooding the Colloquium history with edits. Of the last 250 edits to the Colloquium (as I write this), about 229 were yours, and few of the others were substantial edits, i.e., responses to your topics or others. This kind of traffic overwhelms those who watch the Colloquium, and will tend to suppress conversation. There are also other problems. You are new and newcomers often create "issues", it's normal. However, please allow me to suggest these:
 * Use Preview to see your edits before saving them. Don't save until you are satisfied. This is good advice for wherever you are editing, because massive numbers of changes also cause problems for those monitoring Recent Changes for vandalism, etc. Everyone makes mistakes, but the sheer number and nature of your changes show that you haven't been careful with Preview. Being careful is respectful of the community.
 * Place new comments or questions for the Colloquium and most community pages at the bottom, not at the top. Placing new comments at the top is like jumping ahead in a queue. The oldest comments will be automatically archived first, and we don't want those to be lost somewhere in the middle.
 * Adding large amounts of empty space also tends to dominate the page, visually. It is almost as much of a problem as "walls of text," i.e., massive blocks of undistinguished text.
 * The Colloquium is not a place for extensive essays. Generally, you may write almost anything you like as an essay in your user space. If you want to solicit comment on your essay, a link to it and a brief summary may be appropriate, but beware of dominating the conversation on Wikiversity. There is no limit on your participation in your own space, you can go as deep as you like, but a central discussion page like the Colloquium is another matter. Your posting there, as it has been, is almost certainly suppressing conversation.
 * Even in your personal space, though, if you, without necessity, make voluminous edits where a few could suffice, it still causes a problem with Recent Changes. So Preview is still important. Everyone makes mistakes, so there is no rigid rule.
 * I recommend, if you want to seriously participate in Wikiversity, that you take the time to become more familiar with what is actually happening. The potential of Wikiversity is quite exciting to me, and, I hope, to you. However, Wikiversity is not as much about content, as such, as are the other WikiMedia Foundation wikis. It is about education, and, in education, process is very important. Understanding process requires understanding the community, which requires listening, personal expression is only a part of communication. With effective communication, a lot of listening will precede a little talking!
 * Thanks for your consideration. Ask me, here or on my Talk page, if you have any questions or need any assistance. --Abd 15:19, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

I want to contribute to WV, but I would like to know more about, submitting my work under the "liscense"... does this mean The material I submit Belongs to WV... and Cannot be Copy-writed or used by me, to put into a book, etc... I am interested in the school of Security, Surveilance and law enforcment at WV... Can my Course called, Survival Intelligence ( S.I), be Included in that School, based on a Vote from Developers, etc... ? Thanks --Gaon Abhinava 16:57, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The rules of copyright can be complex. In short, however, material you submitted here can be used by anyone, under the terms of the license you grant when you contribute material, anyone including you, of course. By uploading it, you have released copyright on that material per the license. You might copyright some new version, and that's what could get complicated.... There is no "vote of developers." The community here makes decisions. You can certainly create a course; how you do it will be important. --Abd 20:51, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Move of your topics
I have moved eight of your nine started topics on Colloquium to Colloquium/Gaon Yincang Abhinava. Please use that page for continued discussion of your topics, I will respond to some there, and please start new Colloquium topics there, I highly recommend it for the time being. I will assist you in periodically pointing to that subpage, as I did with the topics I moved there, see. Thanks for your cooperation and for the opportunity to address certain issues. --Abd 16:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for cooperating with this, as I've seen. It makes it easier to allow you full facility and expression. --Abd 16:10, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe I spoke too soon. This set of edits, with the exception of your response to Jeffsackey, was inappropriate for the Colloquium, making it necessary for me to state this more firmly: with the exception of brief responses like that to Jeff, do not edit the Colloquium page, you are showing that you are too likely to create disruption there. Your section header broke the Table of Contents, and you placed new material in the middle of the page. If you want to make discussion history obscure on the subpage devoted to your comments and discussion of them, that's up to you. But on the Colloquium, no. If you want a notice, a pointer to a discussion, placed on the Colloquium, ask. I'll help you, and make sure that what is done is within what the community needs.


 * In addition, you created, with those edits, duplication of material across the Colloquium page and your subpage. We discourage setting up discussion of the same material in two places. It wastes effort and diverts our limited attention. Please do not do this. --Abd 16:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * As a personal anecdote about the damage created by flooding the Colloqium with edits -- you made about 32 edits to the Colloquium today. As a result, when I looked at the Colloquium display in my Watchlist, I didn't notice the edits by the other editors, I only saw them when I reviewed your edits in detail. Flooding the page with edits makes it harder to see the work of others. It also makes it harder to detect vandalism in general. Please use Preview, and make sure you are complete before you save, so that you don't need to make so many edits.

User of a signature/timestamp in section headers
Often you are creating section headers including your signature/timestamp. That's very much out of the norm, and creates very long section titles in the Table of Contents, as well as long edit summaries, leaving less space for describing the edit. I suggest making section headers brief and purely descriptive, and if you want to place a section header alone and immediately sign it, that would be fine, i.e, place the header within equal signs, or use the Add Topic button, and then add your signature tildes immediately below it. But normally we expect to see someone who starts a topic simply sign the first text placed. The topic is for us and the comment is for the user commenting!

I mentioned above the use of lots of space. While there may occasionally be utility for that, it tends to make pages less readable. Rarely is more than one blank line needed for clarity. The subpage of the Colloquium is really your page, though, and if you think all that space is useful, you do have the freedom to do it. Thanks for your consideration. --Abd 16:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Warning
Above, I cautioned you about adding more material to the Colloquium, in the manner of what you have been doing. You disregarded this with. Only one edit in that sequence of 14 edits was not yours. While this is an improvement over your prior flooding, it's still too much. Further, in the context of your repeated addition of material presented disruptively and overwhelming the readibility of the Colloquium, I'm formally warning you:

Do Not Edit the Colloquium. Until you are better able to behave within community norms.

I am not a custodian, I have no special authority, but I also know this community, and the manner in which I have responded to your writing is far more accommodating than the norm. There is often little custodial attention, but users have been blocked for far less than what you have been doing. My warning, here, is that, if you continue, I will stop helping you and will seek custodian attention. If you want to work with Wikiversity, and you are welcome to do so, you will need to learn how to communicate with this community.

Notice that the only other editor who has been responding to you considered my move of your topics to be "a useful approach.". I hope that you will carefully consider this, and, for the time being, use the subpage created for you, and ask other editors, such as Leutha or myself, to place any notices on the Colloquium page for you.

Please also be careful about editing you do anywhere on Wikiversity. Thanks. --Abd 18:44, 31 July 2011 (UTC)


 * You aren't "Stupid," but you are not, shall we say, "trained." You used a good word. You mention that you "work very fast." If you work very fast, and as a result what you do is so scattered and incoherent that it is incomprehensible, what's the value of working at all?


 * Slow down, be careful. What you think of as "elementary" may be, in fact, essential, your haste has caused you to miss much.


 * I've been honest with you. You are saying that you are here to help. Fine. In order to help, you will need to take the time to understand this place and what is really needed. That's true not only of Wikiversity, but also of this entire world, i.e., your entire life. --Abd 22:56, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the Warning, I will heed it, and Follow The rules here...Yeah it's funny, I have already known this principle, but haven't applied it here at WV obviously..... because Understanding something, is essential to effectively change it, into something Better, It is Foundational.--Gaon Abhinava 04:20, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

If you want to delete a page
Place this on the page: (assuming you are the only author).

Sometimes if you have merely blanked the page it might be deleted. Was it your intention to delete the page you just blanked, the one I'd moved into your user space? --Abd 05:02, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

I am trying to think of the exact page you are referencing, I need to learn more obviously, (this is true for everyone..lol..) On a progressive note: I am considering spending more time on helping...to Develope/Direct the Wikiversity Movie, as a Focus of my Energy and time here, I may Submit a video etc...--Gaon Abhinava 17:53, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * One of the problems with making many edits instead of a few, and with not having good edit summaries, is that it gets harder to find stuff. This was the edit I was referring to. You have since edited the page to add something.
 * The other problem with making many edits where a few would suffice, if you Preview and complete your changes before Saving, when possible, is that it floods Recent Changes, making it harder for others to watch the wiki. --Abd 18:54, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Removal of your comment and my response
. Gaon, it's considered a problem to remove the comments of others, unless they truly violate policy. It's also considered, generally, a problem to remove your own comments after someone else has responded to them. If you said something wrong, you can use strikeout, like this. You may restore the comment or leave it removed, I'm not going to complain or do something drastic. But I thought you should know about the community norm. --Abd 02:54, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

I apologize for erasing all the comments, I'll be carefull in my future virtual operations. Thanks --Gaon Abhinava 03:03, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If, however, nobody has responded to your comment, then deleting it is better! --Abd 18:55, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Abd's nomination for full custodianship
Discussion re-opened on this nomination, November 16. You commented in the original discussion, but have not commented in the current one, which might close on November 21. The current discussion is at Candidates for Custodianship/Abd (full custodian). --Abd 20:29, 20 November 2011 (UTC)