User talk:Lucychili

Welcome
Hello Lucychili, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may
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And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold, and see you around Wikiversity! Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat  16:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Removing all content from a page
Hi. As you put a lot of the content onto the page in the first place, I'm sure you must have good reasons for removing it - but could you perhaps explain why? I'm puzzled! Many thanks! --McCormack 13:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If you perhaps wanted to keep it from being edited, you could see Page protection templates... Cormaggio talk 14:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Mel suggested I write a paper for a conference here. In hindsight it was not the best idea as I need to write something I can talk to so its not a very collaborative item to try and make in a wiki. I am finding it hard to have peer review during the writing and wanted to stop and come back later when it was coherent/useful. Ive put the stuff back in after talking with Mel. I will probably write on a document and upload stuff from time to time.


 * That's a useful response. It's not always helpful to be 'peer reviewed' - especially when your thoughts are still in embryonic and inevitably messy stage. i like the idea of writing something you can talk to - but I actually think a wiki is a fine medium for this. As I was trying to point out above, it's fine to ask that people don't edit your work, and only solicit comments, rather than direct edits. Perhaps this would be a good way forward, and as you say, you can manage this in a semi-private, semi-public way, or however you want. I think you shouldn't be afraid in stating under what terms you think this would be most useful for you as a learning process - if it's in good faith, then I really can't see anyone objecting. I, for one, am simply fascinated in the subject - hence my comments. Sorry if I've put you off. Cormaggio talk 22:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Mel has been a gem and has offered many reference ideas. It is not about what people are contributing it is more about me imploding on the concept itself. I am nervous about the concept because I want to make suggestions which will help education systems understand the real costs of industrial abstraction. But I do not want to get into a situation where that gets turned around and all participative practice is deemed structurally irrellevant for educational systems. Not sure of my footing and so writing it badly in a wiki made me implode. I have put a blathering n00b at work sign at the top which I think sets the tone and I should just get on with it. Thoughts are welcome. Examples of collaborative and open works happening in the education sector especially.


 * Thanks. Would it help your footing to have a page where you describe in more detail the aims of this paper, where you're personally coming from, what you desire for in an educational system, etc? Or simply to have an 'idea sandbox' where you can muck around with ideas (eg brianstorm) without feeling that it's got to be good enough to add to a paper (if even in the short term)? I'm thinking that something like this might serve as a parallel space - a learning space or workspace - to feed into the paper. But however you think would be productive for you, this is partly what we're trying to provide for in Wikiversity - ie a way for people to learn (independently and/or collaboratively). There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a blathering n00b - in fact, I think it's great! - and, considering that the theme of this paper is so similar to the kinds of things Wikiversity is doing, I'd like to cohere a community of sorts around some of the questions here, and help each other with our learning... Cormaggio talk 22:07, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I missed the deadline for the paper and it is around 4 times too big to submit. (I was timeslicing a bit too much this month) So I am doing a poster session and will need to say the same thing in pictures now by end march. Im taking a breather to think about that. This means that the wikipage is not really dual purpose now so it can live properly as a wiki page. ie folks go for it. It might be interesting to slice examples by nation as if the aim of the work is to get education systems to rethink their structures it would be nice to be able to view the scoping policies and meshing opportunities for a nation. It might be nice to slice stuff in other ways as well.

I will keep looking at the links and readings. I read some of the SeelyBrown material and was struck by the irony that he is talking about richness and abundance while some of the stuff we are looking at is about sustainability and ecology and frugality in real space. I know he is talking about the artificial scarcity which publishers manufacture to retain value for their products but in looking at the kind of elasticity we are talking about for communities we are probably looking for ways to make efficiencies differently by finding commonality or by making with the things we have at hand. there is a capacity for doing more if you take the profit and broker layers off the top but what kinds of interoperability can be retained etc. He is right that there is a kind of composty richness about community space. We are on water restrictions here so ecology is a tangible thought in a desert nation. Rethinking value and sustainability is the big picture with education being a pivotal piece of applied thinking.

We went to this tonight http://www.anat.org.au/grl and made our own throwies rural fringe arts and mashup on 15 barcamp on the 16 thinking about how to mesh science/arts through a no patent no restrictive copyright model. it would need to be done more frugally for people to want to risk perhaps but i think the answers could be valuable in themselves funky solar or greywater might be interesting - something with inherent value especially if developed openly. funky wireless aerials making computers with driftwood and bicycles.


 * I'm going to have to meditate further on some of your points here. I'm very interested in this introduction of sustainability as a wider frame of reference for what we're doing. But I want to know more about your idea of ecologies - what is your metaphor of 'water restrictions' referring to? Back to your paper/poster, I think it might be too complicated to slice it by nation - I'd say, as a start, it's more likely to be productive if you focus on substantive issues, dynamics, forces that are hindering or could energise FOSSlike innovations as you envisage them in educational contexts. Country-specific policy can be informed by principles or questions that you identify as useful - while of course having freedom to define what's useful in their own particular contexts. Cormaggio talk 14:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

re: making new material in a different page go for it. I dont know how ideas are usually structured for wikiversity so it would be interesting to see what these thoughts look like in context. for me the core ideas are about the industrial model achieving coherence and clarity through excluding data/voices, fencing dependent participants/non-participants, and through systems which express direction/value from a centralised source. optimised for simply expressed centralised value.

the more distributed models are open, therefore require more effort and skill about working through fit for purpose. there is more effort, responsibility and skill required in negotiation of purpose and therefore what is useful to contribute. developing those skills, an appreciation of the different mistake tolerance and contention tolerance and methods of valuing etc are all required for adapting these systems for open participative practice.

there is likely to be concern that participative distributed open processes are difficult to budget, scope, support. i think fidning the distributed efficiencies and the value of local sharing will offset the simplicity of scaled broadcast models, and the fingertip knowledge and adaptability available for students and teachers will bring different rewards, but that this kind of thinking will be a process. there will need to be some practical trials and some looking at friction points.

if our culture does not re-examine the way that we structure we cannot function at this scale sustainably. i think foss in schools is a part of that but am interested in the wider social choice between fenced and central profit driven models(does it scale etc) and the kinds of value that geetha narayanan finds in structuring for local value and sustainability which require a sesne of local responsibility and preparedness to work through complexity to ge things done openly?

wade davis' TED talk is one of the ideas which made me want to look for what we could do if we did not assume blocks of monoculture were valuable and 'other' was not. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/69

Looking for ways to hear or engage with multiple truths or values feel like prerequisites for being able to step back from systems relying on abstracted monopoly and industrial momentum and finance. ie its not just schools and software, but that seems a sensible place to think from because there are a lot of natural synergies with constructivist and connectivist thinking which we are currently trying to do in an industrial framework. Geetha feels like that thinking in practice. What needs to change for AU or anywhere to help us adjust for distributed sustainabile economics?

fair enough if the nation slicing is not useful in the wikiversity context and is something which could be done once some general ideas have been thrashed. i am just trying to find ways to listen for local realities students, teachers, projects, experiences, and to see what the policies look like around those opportunities. lucychili 23:54, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * PS: You added a gmail link twice (above) in this edit - I'm presuming this was by accident, or...? Cormaggio talk 20:54, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

yes sorry didnt see that slip in. lucychili 23:54, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

the water restrictions are not metaphors but they do perhaps act as a fundamental motivation to look at the real and try and hear what we need to change, perhaps with more urgency and appreciation for the idea that things we do currently are not structured for local sustainability and that the systems have a kind of momentum or hearing which enables them to function at scale. that we need different methods for listening and also different kinds of responsibility for local value. hence an interest in local solar, greywater, wind power, all technologies which we could explore on a local level because the transport of power from a central source has a cost over distance and so there are opportunities in skill development grass roots innovation and more sustainable local energy in looking at these kinds of questions as an open community of practice with more support and interest in that model from the wider government in terms of valuing distributed practice.
 * http://www.sawater.com.au/SAWater/Environment/WaterRestrictionsConservationMeasures/
 * http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s1903154.htm


 * Oh yes, I'm well aware that water restrictions are hard realities - but it was just the context that you used them that I thought you were trying to develop a wider metaphor for online communities. (Btw, I should say that I have a strong interest in sustainability - though I've been slightly out of the loop for a while.) We have a few pages on sustainability (see Category:Sustainability - though there are others that haven't been added to that category), but I don't think we have much by way of what you're talking about. I would say that what you're discussing here doesn't exactly fit into the FOSS paper you've been developing, but rather needs a wider space to discuss it in full detail. Feel free to develop something already here (eg in that category), or start a new page (ie a new theme). As for 'nation slicing', I definitely think that we need to apply our thinking to local contexts, but I thought that your paper was looking at general issues first and foremost (eg what kinds of FOSSlike initiatives can be developed by and between schools), before you could start applying them to specific contexts. Cormaggio talk 10:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I see you copied this response to Talk:FOSSlike collaboration in schools - should I copy my reply there, or should we copy this entire conversation there? Cormaggio talk 10:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

anything which is re my paper is old news. anything which is helpful for making something of the ideas go for it. i am going to be focusing on making posters of the ideas now so anything you would like to do with this material is fine by me. you already have permaculture stuff? perhaps they are questions which would be useful in those pages.


 * Ok, what I've been trying to suggest is that we develop a page around these themes - which will help you to create your poster. This would be an explicit learning project - starting from where we are, right now. So, in other words, we could have general pages on FOSS and schools, Sustainability and education, Developing policies around the local (just sample topics - please suggest what would be useful/preferable for you) - or you could start a more specific page on your particular short-term needs (develop a poster), and develop questions and themes from within that specific framework. We're still experimenting with how learning works in Wikiversity - and as well as discussing and learning about this topic (sustainability and FOSSlike models), I'm also trying to see what I/we can learn from this process - in order to enrich and enable further learning projects. Cormaggio talk 11:36, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

ok restructured.lucychili 07:11, 10 March 2008 (UTC) ive borked the page structure a bit ie the underpages are not structurally under the parent. hope that helps

thanks for the link fixing

just wanted to say...
I am online, if you would need something. Find me in the chat, Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 16:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Privacy policy
Apparently this policy was discussed, but not approved - might be of interest since it refers to laws and advice about u/13 year olds. Interesting that the age of 13 is used (due to a law). -- Jtneill - Talk 12:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: education and collaboration
Well not much done, was a long time ago. Wante dto do more than just that, but you know how it is... Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 16:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Random mascot welcome
 Woof! My name is Jack(Russell). I am a dog and a Wikiversity mascot. I am pretty new around Wikiversity. Perhaps we can learn together! Tail wag...

tabs...
Apparently, someone may have broken it on accident. I think I may have fixed it. --Remi 23:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

long time no see
Well, was nothing much - the next one will continue :-) Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 19:45, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Colloquium
Hi! I noticed your recent additions to the Colloquium. The Colloquium is for discussion about Wikiversity rather than other topics. These additions have been removed, but you can still access the content in history at. I encourage you to create a separate learning project for this content or extend an existing project. If you would like, you may post a single, short entry in the Colloquium with a link to the project and inviting others to join you there. Let me know if you have any questions. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 12:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)