User talk:Ramosama

 Hello and Welcome to Wikiversity Ramosama! You can contact us with questions at the colloquium or me personally when you need help. Please remember to sign and date your finished comments when participating in discussions. The signature icon above the edit window makes it simple. All users are expected to abide by our Privacy, Civility, and the Terms of Use policies while at Wikiversity.

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You do not need to be an educator to edit. You only need to be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage. See you around Wikiversity! --Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 19:06, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Problem Analysis
You've created a large number of pages regarding problem analysis, but nothing seems to be usable yet. I recommend focusing on one page at a time until you have something functional, and then build on your successes. If you need assistance, please let us know.

We don't add draft pages to categories. The categories you created recently will be removed. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 14:38, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Response
Thanks for removing the categories from the template /doc pages. I literally followed help:template but I already suspected that the categories must go to the template proper. I appreciate getting assistance if necessary. So, let me first briefly explain what I want to accomplish and second, discuss your comments.

My goal is to set up a research framework for problem analysis (especially for environmental problems, see eeptpp.info if you are interested.) Wikimedia in the Netherlands recommended that I use Wikiversity, because it is a research platform. We also discussed using templates. In my sandbox, I prepare a pilot which uses quite a number of pages. To test the user experience of having to fill out quite many parameters, I created the templates in the production environment (the jigsaw icon in the sandbox yields the production templates.) I am about to move the pages to production: finishing them would be the research project, this is a just a pilot framework (and I am aware of the pilot project trap, so I try to be prudent.) I hope this gives some impression.

As to your comments: you must have seen the large number of pages of my sandbox because I did not create pages in production, only six templates and six categories or so. These templates work, so I do not understand why nothing would be useful yet. The whole bundle of pages would have to be the step to success, a single page will not do. The draft pages were added to the categories automatically because I use them in my sandbox, as I explained in the previous paragraph. I created the categories to get some overview of the many pages which are about to be added, but I will try to return to my sandbox for that.

I was in the midst of editing the templates, if you have any advice or objections, please let me know.


 * I become concerned when new users make large efforts toward creating an infrastructure for something that has no content. Wikiversity has been littered with thousands of well-intentioned efforts that never moved from vision to implementation. When that effort is combined with complicated templates that make it difficult for others to understand and support, the risk of wasted effort increases substantially. At the same time, it increases the amount of time some volunteer (currently me) has to follow the efforts and clean up afterwards. Hence, my concerns. That's not to say that this won't be a wonderful project once you actually implement something. But I'd be more comfortable if I could see a demonstrated use for this that doesn't involve 53 sandbox subpages that don't appear on the surface to have cohesiveness.
 * I'd like to propose two next steps, either of which would help me and others understand where this effort will lead.
 * Create a Draft: page that introduces the first problem you want users to analyze and explains how to use the templates you are designing to analyze that problem.
 * Create a learning project on problem analysis that introduces your technique and approach to problem analysis and explains the templates and provides examples for how to use them.
 * The first option may be more in line with where you are wanting to go. The second is more in line with how Wikiversity works and is typically used. Educate us first on problem analysis so that we understand how to analyze other problems. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 13:37, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much for all your comments on my project. To save you time, let me start with a question:
 * do you mind if I create a few dozen example pages in the Draft: namespace? It seems I need to keep the templates in the main Wikiversity.
 * Let me summarise the rest:
 * I will create a Draft: page as you recommend.
 * If you allow me to create the example pages etc. in the Draft: namespace, I will ask two professors in goal analysis whether they can contribute to a learning project around the example pages. An educational project, however, would have less priority, as this framework is intended primarily for research.
 * Let me give some backgrounds of this summary. I share your concerns because I get few comments (except from you.) However, people generally show interest only when they can see and use a product, so that is why I carry on working on this pilot. As to the next steps you propose:
 * The first problem to be analysed would be limiting the wasting of materials and energy, as on my website. That is what the 53 example pages are for. (I still need to consider omitting some without losing coherence. The pages refer to each other so there is every bit of cohesion.) I was about to make a one-pager explaining the whole framework by ways of this example problem.
 * A learning project on problem analysis is a bit beyond my competence, but the two professors in goal analysis (one being emerita) might be of help.
 * I have contact with three communities which can directly (i.e. in person) address hundreds of alarmed scientists, some of whom might want to try out the templates. So, I have some hope that your time (as well as mine) will be well-spent.


 * Do I mind if you create a few dozen pages in Draft: space? - I can't say no, but I will continue to advise against it. Whatever you are planning shouldn't require dozens of pages to demonstrate a concept. That you believe it does suggests to me that you are headed in a direction that will be difficult to support, and will require extensive cleanup to be useful.
 * Whether templates need to be in Template: space depends on how they will be used. It is likely the templates themselves should be renamed to Problem Analysis/Subpage rather than Problem Analysis - Subpage, but I can't tell yet because I can't tell how they are going to be used. The same naming challenge likely applies to the other pages that have been created so far.
 * If you can encourage experts in the field to contribute to Wikiversity, that's great! But we don't need experts in the field in order to create resources. Anyone with enough academic background to research a subject and provide summaries and references can start a learning project. Anyone ambitious enough to create 53 subpages implementing a concept must know enough about it to introduce it.
 * From my perspective, you are breaking problems down much too far. The volume of subpages required will overwhelm and discourage participation. Our research so far has shown a direct inverse relationship between the number of pages in a learning project and the overall interest the project generates from anyone other than the original author.
 * Please create a Draft: example that demonstrates where this is going. But, please start as small as possible so we can ensure that your vision is usable and supportable. Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 14:15, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Why your pages were deleted

 * To whom it may concern
 * This page represents an exception to a current policy of encouraging editors to use their namespace for research and development of teaching resources. This collection of pages contains template transclusions that are disruptive to Wikiversity. The two top userpages (userpage and talkpage) are currently configured to ensure that we remove the entire set of pages, including templates, userspace subpages, and everything else.

If you have any questions, leave a message on Colloquium or on my talk page.--Guy vandegrift (discuss • contribs) 02:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)