User talk:Tech201805

TODO:
 * Learn how to add links to wikibooks project

Colloquium

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Statistics/2019/10


 * https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikiversity.org/tech201805

 Hello and Welcome to Wikiversity Tech201805! You can contact us with questions at the colloquium or me personally when you need help. Please remember to sign and date your finished comments when participating in discussions. The signature icon above the edit window makes it simple. All users are expected to abide by our Privacy, Civility, and the Terms of Use policies while at Wikiversity.

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You do not need to be an educator to edit. You only need to be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage. See you around Wikiversity! --Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 14:02, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Concerning your question on elastic search (sorry was Mapreduce)
Hey,

you posted a question on my user page (c.f. https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=User:Renepick&diff=next&oldid=1221977 ) I will remove this question since it should have been on the discussion page. However I will answer to your question here. With the use of common.js one can for a local user accound change the destination of the searchbox to some elastic search endpoint. if this should be activated for all users Mediawiki:common.js has to be updated. The community will most likely not accept that update since it includes sending search queries to a third party server which yields a privacy issue. However one could possible fire up an elastic search instance on wikimedialabs.

so technically easy. Socially difficult. unless of course you install your own mediawiki instance somewhere. in that case you don't even have to go via common.js.

hope that helps (:

--Renepick (discuss • contribs) 09:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Ups sorry for using your user page, it was a mistake. But i think my question is not understand. I mean how to add the amazon mapreduce not elascticsearch to the menu list in the page. Thanks
 * I am not sure which page you are talking about if you refer to Big Data the menu that is being transcluded is Big Data/Sidebar so if you edit the later the former will be updated (if not you have to clear the caches by adding &purge=1 as a parameter to the url) -- Renepick (discuss • contribs) 10:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks!!! really useful (Big Data/Navigation), i just need to know how to reach Big Data/Sidebar page for editing. Thanks you Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 11:38, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Wikiversity vs. Wikipedia
Thank you for your recent contributions. Please review What is Wikiversity? and What Wikiversity is not. It's sometimes a fine line, but we need to be careful not to duplicate things that belong in an encyclopedia. Instead, we want to focus on how users learn about the things they might find in an encyclopedia.

For example, when considering OpenSSH, there are a lot of ideas and red links that don't have associated *lessons*. A lesson goes beyond describing the technology and helps users actually learn to use the technology. If your plan is to create lessons for each of these, go for it. If you're just adding red links to things that would be better left as Wikipedia entries, either link to Wikipedia or leave out the red links.

In other words, go for depth. We often have visitors come to Wikiversity and add red links and stubs. Those usually get deleted after six months to a year because no one ever adds the supporting content. You seem to have the knowledge and experience to add detail. Show others how to do what you know.

Let me know if you have any questions or need examples. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 14:08, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, my idea is to try to add didactical content as my time allows to do it, that is the reason i created some of the pages which i have the plan to populate with more information. Let's see. Thanks for your explanation. Regarding red links as for my opinion is a way to know that something has to be completed, but i will take into account your recommendation.

Zabbix and similar pages
I noticed you created Zabbix as a main page entry. It seems unlikely that we would ever have a full course on Zabbix. Even a lesson on Zabbix seems unlikely, since the only reference to it includes Nagios and Icinga. If you'd like to create a resource on Network monitoring tools, and add subpages for each of these, that would be a good learning project.

By itself the Zabbix page doesn't add value. Our goal isn't to create pages for everything. Wikipedia already has that. Our goal is to create lessons and learning opportunities where we can add that value. Please consider creating subpages for these short "definition" pages, if you feel such pages are a necessity.

Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 13:50, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, Thanks for the information.

Cloud computing
Hi Tech201805!

Your resource Cloud computing appears to be well-developed and ready for learners! Would you like to have it announced on our Main Page News? --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 14:43, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually most of the content was provided by others users, but sure feel free to announce it! Hands and readers are always welcome. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs)

IT Fundamentals
IT Fundamentals is a live real-world course based on the CompTIA IT Fundamentals / ITF+ certification. Please do not add anything to the course that is not included in the current exam outline at. Several of the other courses you are working on are also based on certification exams and have specific objectives that should only be updated when the exam is updated.
 * Thanks for the feedback. Sorry about it. I was not aware of it. Unfortunately there is not a lot of contributions but maybe adding some kind of message to differentiate it from pages where new content is welcome. Thanks for the feedback. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs)

I appreciate your contributions to Wikiversity, but it would help if you were to focus on quality rather than quantity.
 * I try to focus in accuracy, so no information is wrong. Apart from that quantity is not important to me. Probably me approach to contribute is different to others but hopefully has the benefit to be a starting point for me and others and hopefully we can attract more people to wikiversity project :-) Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 04:40, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

For example, a page such as Find doesn't add anything over what is already available at find (Unix)
 * This is my main point for using Wikiversity vs Wikipedia. Wikipedia do not welcome detailed information about examples and probably find is one exception but who knows if according to Wikipedia policy it will be deleted soon. I try to make wikiversity more practical and useful with real examples and output from commands to help newcomers and be more descriptive.

I took information from Wikipedia and added at least two new relevant examples to find more, and of course planning to add more. Most of the pages start with a simple example and the evolve in something more elaborated. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 04:37, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

and doesn't mention find (Windows).
 * Of course it is not a finish article and there will be always missing information like most articles now in Wikiversity of Wikipedia, but the point is to keep improving them. Any way i add it but really i do not know much what to say about it apart from i am working on improving most of the articles.Tech201805 (discuss • contribs)

Red links at Wikiversity don't add value, because no one comes by later to add the content.
 * I take it into account, but as you see i am heavily trying to improve content in IT area and red links help me to identify whats is missing, but if Wikiversity policy is no "red links" i can stop making "red links" Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 04:24, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Instead of short pages of content already available at Wikipedia, why not create a Find tutorial that shows users how to use the command, and links to resources that help them understand both Mac/Linux and Windows environments. When you have a full tutorial completed, go on to the next topic.

Thanks for your consideration. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 22:16, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your feedback and i really appreciate all content already created by you. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 04:41, 30 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your comments.
 * Note that IT Fundamentals is labeled. See Talk:IT Fundamentals. Many of the other real-world courses have similar labels.
 * Creating a starting point for others doesn't work at Wikiversity. We have 14 years of experience showing that no one will follow up. Instead, starting points are just one more thing we have to clean up later. Please focus on creating complete content as you go rather than hit-and-miss reminders.
 * Wikiversity isn't trying to match Wikipedia, so there isn't a goal to have everything. Instead, we want high-quality resources people can use to learn for themselves by completing activities that engage in the concepts (learning by doing).
 * There is no policy of "no red links", but again, there also isn't anyone who will come by later and add the content. Rather than adding red links, please add the supporting content. This will require more focus, but also generates better pages.
 * Thanks for your consideration. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 14:04, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your feedback. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 14:41, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Wikiversity and Wikipedia
Please see What is Wikiversity? and What Wikiversity is not. I appreciate the many resources you are adding to Wikiversity, but you need to focus on quality over quantity. You have recently added multiple resources with no specific educational value. Don't add a page just to add it. Build a full lesson that allows users to go beyond what they can find by reading the equivalent Wikipedia (or other) article. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 20:45, 25 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I agree with Dave. Also, I notice that you are creating a lot of stub pages like Ls, Du, and Find. (Duplicates of ls, du, and find) At the very least these should be subpages of a top level project such as Linux/Basic commands. I question if they should be included here at all as this is a duplication of wikipedia. Please refrain from creating new pages until we can discuss this. --mikeu talk 10:23, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I have moved them. Actual they are not duplicated pages, they have and will have more examples and activities which are not allowed in wikipedia. Thanks for your feedback. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 10:25, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you. In general it is best to keep command pages under a top level topic to keep them organized. There are other advantages such as using Special:PrefixIndex/Virsh/ to see a directory of subpages. You can even include a dynamically generated listing of subpages on a top page with . (try it out) I'd also recommend a more specific categorization scheme. Perhaps create Category:Linux commands under Category:Linux, and similar for Category:Virsh commands. Otherwise, we're going to wind up with a large group that consists of lessons mixed in with supporting material.
 * Thanks. Really useful.
 * I guess Dave and I would be more comfortable if we could see an example of this more extensive development that you refer to. At the moment it does not look like there is a cohesive plan to develop a learning project around these pages. --mikeu talk 10:56, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I was not aware of the need of cohesives plan to contribute to Wikiversity. Anyway as i have been regularly doing during last 18 months plan to keep contributing to increase wikiversity knowledge and documentation on my expertise area.


 * For the most part we're pretty casual about creation of resources but planning becomes important when a large number of small pages are created. Dave and I are looking at this from the perspective of a novice that stumbles on a perhaps cryptic looking page that might seem disconnected from a learning project. Organizational tools, such as mentioned above, or CourseCat can provide a quick and easy way of grouping similar pages together and clarifying context. Please feel free to if you'd like some advice or leave a message on my talk page. --mikeu talk 11:35, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Great. Thanks again for your feedback, my preferred method to put into context is the See also section but will try to use other Grouping options. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 20:44, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

A Different Approach
User:Mu301 and I have both asked that you focus on quality over quantity, with more extensive development, and a more cohesive plan supporting your efforts. Instead, I am seeing an increase in the random creation of top level resources with no cohesiveness. There is too much history at Wikiversity of people who have taken an approach similar to the one you are embarking on that requires hundreds of hours of cleanup by someone else years later.

Therefore, on behalf of the Wikiversity Community, I am officially requesting that you stop creating top-level resources. For now you may only create new pages that are subpages or redirects to subpages. Spend your time focusing on organizing the content you already have into courses, learning projects, lessons, etc. Add detail so that others can effectively learn from the pages already created.

Also, be sure to reference any resources used. Anything copied from anywhere must have a reference.

Please let Mike or me know if you have any questions. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 15:17, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * All pages are IT related, technically accurate and trying to complement Wikipedia in a more didactical and practical approach. Feel free to help me to organize already available content instead of propose deleting it. I will try to avoid to create any top-level resource and move old pages under already existing topics.
 * Anyway I will probably move all content to another place to avoid risk of loosing all work done.

Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 18:36, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * On the other hand if this is a already existing Wikiversity policy I guess it should be written somewhere and agreed by the community. Not sure anyway. As you can see I do not voluntarily support the case that every page should be a subresource of a bigger resource, but if are Wikiversity rules I will try to support them. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 18:36, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Regarding references all content is heavily referenced when needed. Not sure if you comment it for any specific case. Thanks. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 19:10, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

05/2019: Cleanup: subpages of learning project (Dave)
The following pages did not meet Wikiversity quality standards and have been moved to Draft: space for cleanup. Most should be a subpage of a larger learning project rather than restored to main space as a primary landing page.

I will need to create at least top level resource Virtualization to move most of this content under Virtualization course. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 18:41, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

On the other hand some top level resources such as Computer Networks/Ethernet are taken by CompTIA specific CV. I guess this pages should be available to not specific CV. Should it be possible to fix it? I have avoided all the time to modify it to avoid any conflict with Dave but seems to me that should be fixed. Thanks. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 18:51, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Any tool? Recommendation for fast moving pages under another resource? Or has to be manually created? Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 18:51, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Virtualization has been added. Thanks. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 23:09, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Computer Networks will take some time to address. It is being used by a real-world course, and finals aren't over for another week. I'll have to check if our high school partners are using it. That would take another week after that.
 * Perfect. Not in a hurry just something that in my opinion needs to be modified. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 23:09, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * There are bots available to move pages quickly. Please describe, in detail, the structure you are planning so that we can support your efforts.
 * Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 22:31, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * as starting point all Virsh pages can be move under KVM Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 23:11, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Upon reflection, I think moving both KVM and Draft:Virsh under Virtualization is probably a better approach. This will allow you to develop a full course on virtualization, which appears to be part of your interest. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 22:07, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Virsh cleanup
Draft:Virsh has enough content that it could be its own learning project. But it needs to be cleaned up first. See Progressive disclosure and Chunking (psychology) for background information. I'd be happy to help you with this, but I have other priorities today that I have to address first. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 14:56, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Could you be more specific about what needs to be cleaned to meet official Wikiversity policies? Those articles are Wikipedia physiology related and not official Wikiversity policies. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 15:02, 6 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Please see Blocking policy, specifically "Behaviors that have a net negative effect per community consensus." There are now three respected community members taking issue with and reverting your edits. That's not yet a majority, but without objections, it is already a consensus. That and Drafts are the policies you should be focusing on at the moment.
 * Regarding the links to progressive disclosure and chunking, there are several aspects to creating effective learning materials. One of these aspects is a progressive disclosure that "help[s] maintain the focus of a user's attention by reducing clutter, confusion, and cognitive workload." The information needs to be effectively chunked to allow users to locate and understand the information they are looking for at that time, without burdening them with other details that don't interest them at the moment. The Virsh subpages may do this (I haven't looked at them in detail), but the overview page certainly does not.
 * If the Virsh page is going to be a subpage of Virtualization I'd be willing to let it go for now. But, as an overview page, it shouldn't have any code on it. Inform users and then allow them to drill down to what they need without having to skip over code they don't need at that moment.
 * Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 22:24, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

2019/12 Comments about proposed deletion policy: 150 days unedited
Hi! Seems like there is a policy to propose to delete articles with no editions in 150 days. And articles like https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Draft:Natural_electric_field_of_the_Earth are now flagged for deletion. Mature, and good quality articles can fall into this policy. Seems to me a little bit aggressive policy. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 06:57, 6 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Drafts came out of an extensive Requests for deletion discussion. There is consensus for this approach. The 180-day deletion policy is already accepted, is double the standard "proposed deletion" policy, and matches the Wikipedia draft deletion timeline. The 30-day notice is more than four times what was proposed as the most lenient notice suggestion.
 * I appreciate that you are unhappy with the current state of affairs, but it is important that you learn more about Wikiversity and its community before proceeding. We will try to help you if you are willing to learn and work with us. A hostile response is less productive and less well-received. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 22:40, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

2019/12 red links Wikiversity official policy
Hi! I would like to know if Wikiversity has an official policy regarding red links, as I am in a editing “war” regarding this topic. Thanks Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 14:39, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

200 pages moves to Draft in 1 day
After 1.5 years working in Wikiversity on IT field and more that 600 pages created, and while actively developing different resources suddenly 200 pages are move to Draft in one day. All pages are technically right created on good faith and trying to agree to official Wikiversity policies. I am not agree with vision and way of working of some members but I try to respect official and agree policies. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 17:24, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Draft Space Cleanup
WoW you create this policy and then move hundreds of new resources created by me to Draft. https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/User_talk:Tech201805#05/2019:_Cleanup:_subpages_of_learning_project_(Dave). That’s not a really friendly approach. @Marshallsumter that is a safe way to lose editors.

Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 06:38, 6 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Please review the friendly warnings on this page going back six months now. There comes a point where friendly isn't effective and other approaches must be taken. If you'd like to go back to friendly and work with us to improve these resources, please let us know. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 22:44, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Blocked

 * Wow you are really going too far. Since you start this 200 delete proposal I have not work anymore on any article just tried to bring things back to normal situation but I have start complaining about this situation. Where am I suppose to rise my concerns about current situation if colloquium is not the right place? You block me not because I am doing any disruptive editing to any Wikiversity page. You block me because I am starting to complain or questioning your last actions. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 01:44, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Evasive responses?
I keep answering your questions but it do not matter that I have to agree with you. Must be the 10th time that i ask if there is any official policy in Wikiversity about red links with no answer but just enforcing it. I know Wikipedia has and I respect it but not Wikiversity. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 00:31, 7 December 2019 (UTC)


 * This is the page for such discussions. Dave and I have been patiently explaining how lesson creation works here and the best practices that we've developed after many years of experience. I'd suggest that you spend more time trying to absorb the advice that you've been given, and less expressing your individual concerns. A wiki is a collaborative community and your actions have an impact on others. The excessive page creation and the disorganization of the materials that you are working on has created an unnecessary amount of work for our volunteer staff. Please take this time to address the points that we've raised above. If, after a week has elapsed, there are still unresolved tensions we may pursue a formal Community Review. But this is the first step before engaging in the Dispute Resolution process. Perhaps you can start by by reassuring us that you understand and acknowledge the issues that we've raised? --mikeu talk 01:05, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

excessive page creation

 * I create a page because there were not related content. Is there any other option? I can put everything in one page but that’s do not make thing clear to me. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 01:11, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Organization

 * Regarding disorganization, I create content as I am working on it. And to my understanding content is organized and some pages created are already in the among most visited in Wikiversity. Actually Wikiversity has an open discussion about this organization topic https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Community_Review/Volleyball#5._Wikiversity_Structure with different opinions, but with no consensus you are imposing your vision.

Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 01:15, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Short break
I'm going to step back for about a day or so to allow some time for thoughtful reflection on your part. (You might find it productive to consider the community discussion and closure at Wikiversity talk:Drafts.) I will, however, resume engagement in this discussion in a timely manner. --mikeu talk 02:13, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Wow now you even delete my concerns in my own page: please let at least express my concerns in my user page and do not delete my complains:


 * Since you start this 200 delete proposal I have not work anymore on any article just tried to bring things back to normal situation but I have start complaining about this situation. Where am I suppose to rise my concerns about current situation if colloquium is not the right place? You block me not because I am doing any disruptive editing to any Wikiversity page. You block me because I am starting to complain or questioning your last actions. Tech201805 (discuss • contribs) 01:44, 7 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Talk page editing is now blocked for two weeks. --mikeu talk 03:28, 7 December 2019 (UTC)