Wikiversity:Colloquium/archives/June 2023

The name of an article on Hedonism
I created article "Hedonism (Polansky)" and it was moved to Hedonism/Polansky. I feel unhappy with the new name. What troubles me, I think, is that it gives the impression that there is a larger work or project "Hedonism" and there is a part of it called "Polansky". Whereas my idea was that I published an article on hedonism called "Hedonism", and since I felt I should not occupy the "Hedonism" headword for my work, I used "(Polansky)" for disambiguation.

The following changes come to mine: What do you think? Any other proposals? --Dan Polansky (discuss • contribs) 11:35, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Name it "Hedonism (Polansky)" again, where the brackets are inspired by Wikipedia article name convention.
 * Name it "Hedonism - Polansky" if preferred.
 * Name it "Hedonism by Polansky" if preferred.
 * Name it "One man's look at hedonism": thus, use ever so slightly original title to make sure the title "Hedonism" is not occupied.


 * @Dan Polansky Hedonism/Polansky is the accepted approach. We don't name main space resources after users except as subpages. And since "One man's look at hedonism" is still a resource on hedonism, that, too, would be moved to where the page is now. If you'd prefer to rename it, you are welcome to do so, but the location is correct as currently published.
 * I suppose your other option would be to work with the WikiJournal of Humanities to have it accepted and published there.
 * Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 13:33, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. So let me see: would "One man's look at hedonism" be placed to "Hedonism/One man's look at hedonism"? If so, why would one use subpaging when there is categorization for the purpose? I looked around a bit to see what the practice is, and I found e.g. "C language in plain view" not placed at "C language/C language in plain view", and there is "The necessities in Microprocessor Based System Design", not "System Design/The necessities in Microprocessor Based System Design" or the like. The thing is, "Hedonism/One man's look at hedonism" looks kind of clumsy. As clumsy as it looks, it is perhaps better than "Hedonism/Polansky" for the reasons stated: it looks as if there is chapter called "Polansky" or something.
 * As for WikiJournal of Humanities, that seems too much of a challenge to me; that would require addressing issuess found in a review and committing time and attention to address the issues.
 * Since you seem rather opposed to "Hedonism (Polansky)", would "One man's look at hedonism" be acceptable even if dispreferred? Or would at least "Hedonism/One man's look at hedonism" be acceptable even if dispreferred? --Dan Polansky (discuss • contribs) 14:26, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * C language in plain view and The necessities in Microprocessor Based System Design are both complete, real-world courses taught by a prolific Wikiversity user with 43,000 edits. That's probably not the best comparison for this resource. If you're planning to develop a real-world course on hedonism, please move the page to Draft: space so you can begin your development work.
 * We don't have any main space pages named after users. If you happen to find one, please let us know and it will be addressed immediately. As indicated above, "If you'd prefer to rename it, you are welcome to do so, but the location is correct as currently published."
 * Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 23:05, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I renamed/moved this to One man's look at hedonism since it addresses my concern and seems acceptable. (I did not mean to imply that my short article that hardly anyone is going to read, I am afraid, is comparable in scope, extent and quality to "C language in plain view"; I was merely looking at naming practice.) --Dan Polansky (discuss • contribs) 06:50, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Using Templates from Wikipedia
I can do interwiki link of article by prefixing w: and s: for wikipedia and wikisource, respectively, but how do I use an existing wikipedia template? If not technically supported, can a lua macro be made to enable this?

Many of the original research projects and course curriculums that I'm composing, will be arrangements of existing wikisource texts and wikipedia articles - "choose your own adventures" guides through material thats mostly already present. For example - User:Jaredscribe/Comparative_law

Suggestions? Thanks, Jaredscribe (discuss • contribs) 22:53, 15 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Not currently possible. There are outstanding requests for this functionality (e.g. T11890 and T121470), but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 * In the meantime, I'd recommend that you copy the necessary templates over, or ask a curator to import them for you. It's likely that you'll have to make changes to the template content anyway, e.g. to add interwiki prefixes to links. Omphalographer (discuss • contribs) 00:46, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice and phabricator requests @Omphalographer.
 * I did what you suggested and copied a template over, making changes as needed. Here: Template:Professional_responsibility
 * I was able to include it on my user subpage's course reading list.
 * Is this adequate, or is anything other curation needed? Thanks for the help.
 * Jaredscribe (discuss • contribs) 01:47, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you trying to transclude, like &lt;nowiki&gt; ? I am as well. Copying pages from Wikipedia seems to be counter-wiki-thinking... I'm trying to pull the section before the first header of wikipedia pages (using ) into lecture notes and eventually slides, see User:Stevesuny/sandbox/Conversation/Welcome Stevesuny (discuss • contribs) 14:20, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

No history Journal?
I was thinking about writing a few pages about various topics of history, when I found out there is no History Journal, can I still publish history related pages? Crainsaw (discuss • contribs) 08:49, 18 June 2023 (UTC)


 * There is WikiJournal of Humanities, but it's pretty dormant. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 10:14, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you could reactivate it, Crainsaw! Contributor118,784  Let's talk  13:02, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Question about userpage storage
Hello. I attempted storing research on my Wikipedia userpage, but my entire userspace was speedy deleted due to Wikipedia:WP:U5 and Wikipedia:WP:NOTWEBHOST.

I was wondering if I would be free to safely store research on User:Indexcard88 (Wikiversity)?

Thanks, Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 18:49, 25 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Neither this project nor Wikipedia are free hosting, but if you have relevant content, there's an indefinite (not infinite) amount of information you can save in the userspace. Do you have in mind content to add to Wikiversity? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:05, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Could you verify if both Wikiversity and Wikipedia are publicly, freely and universally collaborative websites? I could see how someone could view using Wikiversity or Wikipedia for taking notes, or as a research journal, might be seen as taking advantage of either platform. Could you link to a similar rule to Wikipedia:WP:NOTWEBHOST that is on Wikiversity? If not, would I be able to archive notes on my userpage? Thanks again. Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 20:04, 25 June 2023 (UTC) ... To clarify, I was hoping to add content to Wikiversity by archiving notes similar to a research journal. Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 20:16, 25 June 2023 (UTC) ...' I will go ahead and wait, before doing that, until we agree that it's OK to do that. If you don't agree, still, why is that? Or how could we resolve to an agreement? Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 20:23, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Could you verify if both Wikiversity and Wikipedia are publicly, freely and universally collaborative websites? No. Both Wikipedia and Wikiversity have specific, defined purposes; they are not public sandboxes. Please see What is Wikiversity? and Scope for an overview of what Wikiversity's intended scope and purpose is.
 * To clarify, I was hoping to add content to Wikiversity by archiving notes similar to a research journal. This is probably a better fit for a personal notebook or a text file on your computer, not a page on a public web site. If your notes progress to the point of a publishable research article, though, you could potentially publish that through the WikiJournal group.
 * Omphalographer (discuss • contribs) 21:19, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't completely understand your reply to this, with respect to the mission of free information.Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 21:24, 25 June 2023 (UTC) ... I am including the research statement on the article you referenced: What_is_Wikiversity%3F Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 21:36, 25 June 2023 (UTC) ... I am storing research information on Indexcard88 Archive which is not under my userpage. Thanks.Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 21:20, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

our community is small, and we are all too busy to write the detailed policy rules you see on Wikipedia. I for one, support allowing any editor to host education materials indefinitely, with certain restrictions. Here is my effort to outline what those restrictions might be:
 * 1) All copyright laws must be scrupulously obeyed, and anything that might be interpreted as slander or harmful to any person or organization must be deleted.
 * 2) Any material that the community deems to be pseudoscience or other falsification of established truth must be clearly labeled as such. Certain other types of material should be banned as inappropriate: Advocation of hate or self harm needs to be controlled, for example.  All commercial efforts must be deleted, as should anything deemed by the community to be in "bad taste" (pornography, offensive humor,...)
 * 3) The general rule is that no incoming links from Wikiversity pages are allowed. In other words, you cannot place a link to your userdpace on a Wikiversity article or resource. We should extend this restriction beyond Wikiversity to any page on the internet.  Any such link to your Wikiversity user space publicly reflects on Wikiversity itself.
 * 4) There needs to be some limit regarding how much material can be stored and how long it is allowed to remain in your userspace. I see no reason why a 8 year old child can't start an educational journal in user space that continues until their education ends.  And, education ceases only when you are brain dead.  I am 72 years old and I am still learning and documenting my efforts in userspace and draftspace.
 * 5) Anything that raises objections by the WMF must be removed immediately and without unnecessary debate or discussion. They pay our bills, and that gives them veto power over all our efforts.

We are all to some extent qualified to opine and debate what constitutes appropriate and inappropriate material. But few of us are qualified to set limits on how much or how long material is allowed to remain on userspace. Useless gigabytes of meaningless data incurs costs that I know nothing about calculating, or even estimating:
 * Storage space must be paid for and maintained by the WMF, and no discussion of "how much" or "how long" material should be allowed must be coordinated with a representative of the WMF.
 * Wikiversity pages are patrolled by a few brave volunteers, and their requests need to be honored. For example, material in your userspace will contain links to templates and mainspace pages.  Your use of these templates and links to mainspace is documented in the "What links here" sidebar, and therefore interferes with the maintenance of those resources.  A related issue involves lint errors, which also might Wikiversity maintenance.
 * Even though we can "hide" userspace from Google search, we cannot prohibit websites from linking into Wikiversity. Links to bad Wikiversity pages hurt our reputation, which in turn dissuades both readers and contributors from using Wikiversity.

The establishment of restrictions on userspace is a complex subject, and what I wrote above is almost certain to contain omissions and errors, but this might be a good place to begin a discission. It is an important topic for those who wish to see Wikiversity thrive and expand, for the simple reason that we might be able to attract talented scholars by offering them free and unlimited workspace for their efforts. --Guy vandegrift (discuss • contribs) 22:25, 25 June 2023 (UTC)


 * For context, some of the content this user was storing on their Wikipedia user page can be viewed in their deletion logs. It is my opinion that this content would be equally out of scope on Wikiversity, whether in user space or otherwise. While the definition of "research" is hazy, a collection of messages like "Poop is amazing, and my mom does it every day" are clearly not it. Omphalographer (discuss • contribs) 23:40, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I would ask how much liberty I have in what I include in a research journal, or why omission of data would be scientific.Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 01:06, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 *  The titles in the aforementioned deletion logs suggest that you should create a free account using Google documents and post the material there. Wikiversity userspace is hidden from Google searches. In contrast, Google documents can be accessed by the general public if they are placed in shared mode (this link shows how.)--Guy vandegrift (discuss • contribs) 03:53, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not seeing what you're referring to. Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 04:49, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

According to Request_custodian_action (Special:diff/2479188), Indexcard88 Archive may not be an acceptable title in mainspace and might be renamed/moved to user space. If there is no objection or renaming by the author, then I may move the pages in the next few days. MathXplore (discuss • contribs) 04:15, 26 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Just delete it.
 * Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 04:44, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * With respect to special:diff/2532969 by the author, I finished the renaming without redirect. Since I'm not sure if the discussion has ended or not, I thought the content should remain visible at userspace for now. For deletion requests from others, please use WV:RFD. MathXplore (discuss • contribs) 07:31, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I am available on Discord on the Wikimedia Community Server.
 * Wikimedia account verification: https://discord.com/channels/221049808784326656/642755553235304448/1123098305786806412
 * Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 10:28, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Userpage storage, revisited
By now I think we have a fairly representative sample of what form Indexcard88's "information research" takes. Here's a couple examples for reference:


 * User:Indexcard88/Archive/June 28th 2023 3
 * User:Indexcard88/Archive/July 2nd 2023 2
 * User:Indexcard88/Archive/July 12th 2023 4
 * User:Indexcard88/Archive/July 21st 2023 2
 * User:Indexcard88/Archive/July 23rd 2023 2

It is my considered opinion that this is not an appropriate use for Wikiversity. While Wikiversity's definition of research is, by design, broad, it does expect research to be a "systematic process of inquiry aimed at discovering, interpreting and revising knowledge". This haphazard collection of web searches, links to Wikipedia pages, and bizarre religious musings (e.g. "God, I sinned by using the bathroom") clearly does not fit that definition. Omphalographer (discuss • contribs) 19:12, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I personally do not see any educational value or means of interactive learning in these documents and it may be best for Indexcard88 to put these writings in a Word Doc or a Google Doc. —Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 15:56, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Per abuse filter log, I also agree to your opinions. MathXplore (discuss • contribs) 05:13, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I have seen many external links at their user pages, I'm afraid to mention that they may violate External links and may be declared as spamming. MathXplore (discuss • contribs) 05:02, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I have sent this discussion to a Computer & Information Science alumni associate with Messiah College (Messiah University) to ask how I should respond.
 * Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 17:43, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Excuse me, is there any reason that you cannot reply by yourself? Does Messiah University have any relation to your creations? MathXplore (discuss • contribs) 05:20, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not continuing to use Wikiversity right now. Indexcard88 (discuss • contribs) 14:55, 29 July 2023 (UTC)


 * 1) Podbrushkin (discuss • contribs) 11:53, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) Podbrushkin (discuss • contribs) 11:54, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 3) I fully agree! Blake Contributor118,784   Let's talk  14:44, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

WorkmarketBot persmission request
Hi all. I'm jut flagging the bot application for User:WorkmarketBot request (at Bots/Status) just to make sure those intersted have seen it. T.Shafee(Evo&#65120;Evo)talk 04:46, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Announcing the new Elections Committee members

 * You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.
 *  m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation elections committee/Nominatons/2023/Announcement - new members • 

Hello there,

We are glad to announce the new members and advisors of the Elections Committee. The Elections Committee assists with the design and implementation of the process to select Community- and Affiliate-Selected trustees for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. After an open nomination process, the strongest candidates spoke with the Board and four candidates were asked to join the Elections Committee. Four other candidates were asked to participate as advisors.

Thank you to all the community members who submitted their names for consideration. We look forward to working with the Elections Committee in the near future.

On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees, 

RamzyM (WMF) 18:00, 28 June 2023 (UTC)